You Know.. Thinking About It..

[Lee]

We really should bring back the death penalty State wide.

Im pretty sure some of these sick fucks out there would have a change of heart if they knew they'd end up getting the needle or a couple of hundred thousand volts through thier heads if they got caught.

On a more pleasant note.. One more CP site will be shut down in a few hours time

Regards,

Lee

[Paco]

throw another log on the fire ... and the log's name is Justin Berry.

I'd love to see that punk ass bitch sizzle!

[chadknowslaw]

When I was putting bad people into prison, I never faced this issue because Iowa didn't have the death penalty. I have run into the question of whether we should have it or not many times.

Very un-British of you, Lee to want the death penalty! The United Kingdom, along with Australia, Austria, Canada, Cambodia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Lithuania, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, and Venezuela, have done away with the dealth penalty.

The United States enjoys the company of these countries that still use the death penalty:
Afganistan, China, Congo, Cuba, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Iran, Laos, Libya, Pakistan, Phillipines, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Thailand, and Vietnam.

For the complete list go here: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

I must admit that there are just some sick fucks that really need to have the living shit strangled out of their worthless bodies. What I really have a problem with is the justice systems in the United States--a death penalty should only be used within a fair and impartial system, so that only those fuckers that really deserve it get executed. We do not have a fair and impartial system in the US. We have prosecutors with egos the size of Texas who are out to get convictions for political or personal benefit. We have law enforcement agencies infiltrated with brutal, racist, lying, self-serving cops that will lie on the stand, fake evidence, and look the other way when they find evidence that the accused did NOT convict the crime. We have juries that do not represent the community because the most educated in the community know how to get off jury duty, the prosecutors fleece out the fair-minded, and those that remain statistically have an average 7th grade education. This is NOT a good system, and one that I believe is just not capable of making the decision of whether the state should put an accused to death or not.

While in theory I support putting a man or woman to death for killing a bunch of people or for other various heinous crimes, I don't think we have a system that is responsible enough to use the death penalty. So I guess you gotta put me into the "no death penalty" group.

[Paco]

While in theory I support putting a man or woman to death for killing a bunch of people or for other various heinous crimes, I don't think we have a system that is responsible enough to use the death penalty. So I guess you gotta put me into the "no death penalty" group.

I totally agree with you, Chad: although there have been times when I wished the death penalty for criminals (okay, okay ... and politicians ... yah yah, and the likes of Michael Moore) our justice system is everything but, just &/or competent. Our system rewards those with the better understanding of the riddles of law, written in the English language. The better one (or their representative) understands English, the better their chances (of finding loopholes or to cause enough doubt &/or confusion).

Conjecture is now the primary variable whilst fact and evidence are merely circumstantial.

[XXXWriterDude]

Ack, well, I'm a staunch opponent of the death penalty. And I'll just leave it at that.

[Lee]

Ack, well, I'm a staunch opponent of the death penalty. And I'll just leave it at that.

No.. LOL

Seriously though, why? Do you not think if people knew they would get harsher punishments for commiting crimes, that crime rates would drop?

Consider this.. You can get a longer term in jail for sending a single email, than you can for killing someone in cold blood.

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

The argument about the death penalty as a deterrent is the one used by most of the advocates of the death penalty, but when I was in college, one of my stats professor's primary area of study for a couple years was the death penalty, the sorts of victims who receive it, the types of crimes committed, etc.

Turns out that it is grossly disproportionately meted out to lower income, usually minority perpetrators, is rarely given when the victim is non-white, and further, that no evidence (and there have been exhaustive studies on this) indicates that it actually serves as a deterrent in any meaningful way.

I'm all for appropriate punishment, particularly of violent criminals or those who harm children or the infirm/elderly, but I don't think the death penalty is the way to do it.

If we as a society are trying to move in the direction of treating one another with kindness and forgiveness and are seeking to help others learn from their mistakes (and I realize that's a debated issue), then killing people probably isn't the best way to do that... we stopped cutting out people's tongues for lying or cutting off their hands for stealing a long time ago, because it was cruel and didn't work. Perhaps it's time to do the same thing with the death penalty

[Lee]

Turns out that it is grossly disproportionately meted out to lower income, usually minority perpetrators, is rarely given when the victim is non-white, and further, that no evidence (and there have been exhaustive studies on this) indicates that it actually serves as a deterrent in any meaningful way.

This is true however, would you not say that this is more a problem with the econimics within the United States and the large differences in 'class' throughout the country, especially when you take in to account the racial differences 'class' wise?

Perhaps if a more evenly thought out punishment system was put in place, this form of punishment would become more of a deterrent?

Again going back to what i mentioned above, it makes absolutely no sense to give someone a longer sentence for sending out an email than what someone would get for deliberatly killing another person.

Regards,

Lee

[dannyz]

Societies without the death penalty and less harsh punishments for crimes usually tend to have a lot less crime and murder. I'll use Iceland as an example since I have some friends from Iceland who (quite rightly) think the US is one the most uncivilized countries:

- Iceland, with no army, navy or air force, or cops that carry guns, has not seen combat for several centuries. In addition, Iceland has the seventh lowest incarceration and murder rates in the entire world.

- Life expectancy, at 81.3 years for women and 76.4 for men, is one of the highest in the world in Iceland. And the median Icelander makes $30,000 per year, the seventh highest in the world.

- Murder rates of Japan and Iceland are among the lowest in the world, around 0.5; rate of United States is highest among all developed countries, at 5.5 (2004).

Could it be that people think 'if the government all have guns and weopons and can murder people, I have the right to do so also?' Couldn't it also be that by creating an enviroment of fear such as the government does in the US, it is actually helping perpetuate crime rather then stop it? I can certainly understand people's anger when horrible crimes happen and wanting the person to fry, but I think the US should look further into the root of why these crimes are happening rather then just killing more people that could (as Chad correctly pointed out) be innocent.

[XXXWriterDude]

I'm just going to say it: The U.S. sucks!

[chadknowslaw]

Comparing a very homogeneous society with a non-homogeneous society typically results in flawed comparisons. Thus, comparing Iceland and Japan with the US on violent crime rates [even though I know you like those places Danny, you can't draw those conclusions so quickly!] is not going to give you any results that can be statistically supported. There are cultural differences that also contribute to the crime rates that are independent of how the state punishes criminal offenders in those countries. Thus, in order to compare Iceland's crime rate to the US crime rate, to percolate the difference in crime rate that is attributable _only_ to actions of the goverment, you have to adjust for differences in the crime rate due to culture. You must also adjust for differences in community sizes. Smaller communities typically have lower violent crime rates and higher solve rates for non-violent crimes like burglary than large communities. It makes sense to us that a city of 1 million will have a higher violent crime rate than a city of 10000. Crime rates are also correlated to socio-economic reasons; poor communities have higher reported violent crime rates than weathy ones. However, you have to throw out the anomalies --like when a town of 500 people has a double murder but has not had a murder for 50 years. A murder rate of 1:250 would make that town the most violent fucking place on the planet, but for one year that is what it statistically would be. Remember that there are 3 kinds of lies in the world--lies, damned, lies, and statistics.
One must also consider the rights and freedoms of each country, and how important those freedoms are. In the US, a police officer cannot stop me in my car unless he has a reason, and if he does stop me, he cannot search my car unless he has a reason. In the Scandanavian countries the police can set up roadblocks, they can stop you for no reason, and they can search your car with no reason. That is a huge disincentive to be carrying contraband but it is also a huge invasion of the privacy of innocent people. And that whole warrant thing that you see on TV-- not in Japan. You won't see a Japanese accused being read his rights either.
We also think it is OK to trample on those rights until it is OUR rights that are being trampled on. Many who would say, "They oughta lock him away and throw away the key" have a very different opinion when that "him" becomes "me" or "my ____ " Suddenly we all become liberals and soft on crime. If that steel door slams behind you [yes, I have been in jail --5 times~ ] you suddenly become an advocate of the civil rights of an accused.

I personally will live with the higher crime rate as long as I know I have a few rights if I am going to be accused, and I have some right to my own privacy here. I cannot say the system is ideal, but simply that I will take this one over Japan's or Iceland's. All systems need improvements, all have good points, and all have bad points. None are perfect. No system will satisfy everybody all the time. I am proud of my time "in the system" [as a prosecutor, not as a defendant!] and I believe I conducted myself with honor and fairness. I sent a lot of bad people to jail, to prison, and to probation. I treated all defendants as human beings and treated everyone equally whether they were rich or poor, light or dark, stupid or smart, good looking or ugly, male or female or a combination. The sad thing is that most prosecutors did not hold their office with the same respect for it as I did. Greed, thirst for power, and general apathy eat away at ethics and responsibility to uphold the law. I got out before I became like all the rest.

Dammit, Danny, now you made me cry~~

[Xstr8guy]

My feelings on the topic... if one innocent person is mistakenly put to death (and MANY have been) than the death penalty is wrong. Personally, if I was in prison for life, I would prefer to be put to death.

[gaystoryman]

Well put Chad, and an interesting choice. I'd say that the death penalty which exists in several states such as Texas simply proves that it is not a deterrent at all. I think the exact opposite could be true, as if you have no hope, nothing to gain, or certainty of death as the result of your actions, how many will you take with you? After all even if you get the death penalty, by the time appeals have gone through and all you still sitting in prison for 10 or so years I believe. So I would tend to think that a death penalty isn't going to prevent such acts, but endanger others more so.

I'd also agree with Jim, one innocent wrongly sent to jail and death is too much.

Though I do believe stiffer penalties should exist for crimes that one would consider the death penalty for vs as you say less heinous crimes.

:coffee:

[dannyz]

My feelings on the topic... if one innocent person is mistakenly put to death (and MANY have been) than the death penalty is wrong. Personally, if I was in prison for life, I would prefer to be put to death.

I agree, death is an easy way out for them.

And Chad honey...yes I know stats of course aren't perfect and there are other factors such as culture involved. However, there does seem to be something inherently wrong when a culture has as much crime and murder as there is in the states. I'll try to speak from a personal experience rather then use broad stats okay?

When I lived in the US, the following happened to me:
- I was gay bashed once
- I was held up at gun point once
- My car was broken into more times then I can remember
- My house was broken into once
- My wallet was stolen twice
- A gun was pulled on me once after accidentally cutting someone off while driving. Fortunately they didn't shoot.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head but I know there is more.

I have been living in Asia the past 5 years and guess what? I have NEVER been a victim of any crime here. Okay, maybe I've just been lucky, but I really feel a hundred times safer here then I ever did in the US. I don't worry about some asshole pulling a gun on me, I don't worry about my car being broken into and I certainly don't worry about being gay bashed. Those things just don't happen in most Asian countries.

Is all of America bad? No. Is it only the government's fault things are the way they are? No. But I do think people need to wake up and smell the coffee, unfortunately most people around the world agree with Ken's assesment of the US. It's up to you all living there to make it better a place LOL, I escaped while I could!

But if I did make you cry Chad, here's a kiss to make you feel better....:kiss:

[chadknowslaw]

But if I did make you cry Chad, here's a kiss to make you feel better....:kiss:

and just WHERE do I get my kiss????? :develish: