You Gotta Love The ACLU - Dont You?

[Lee]

A legal group, usually on the side of gay rights, is defending a church group which protests at military funerals claiming the deaths are punishment for US gay policy.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which often supports gay marriage and adoption cases, argues that the law in Kentucky which limits funeral protests inhibits the Westboro Baptist Church’s freedom of speech.

The lawsuit has been filed on behalf of Bart McQueary, Lili Lutgens, a lawyer for the ACLU said: "Mr. McQueary clearly has the right to express his message in a nondisruptive manner, even if others disagree with him.

Meanwhile a spokesman for Governor Ernie Fletcher, regularly against gay rights, said: "The public should respect their dignity in a very difficult time.

"That's why this law was passed. It's inconceivable why anyone would want to protest at a military funeral while family members are there."

The Westboro Baptist church who run a website called GodHatesFags have protested at over 100 funerals of soldiers killed in the line of duty in Iraq. Their campaign, called “Thank God for Improvised Explosive Devices” involves protesters holding up signs and chanting slogans such as “God Hates Fags," "America is Doomed" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers” at the widows of the servicemen.

The Kentucky state law states that protests can only be within 300 feet of memorial services, wakes and burials. Those who break the law can be sentenced to a year in jail.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-1341.html

Crazy stuff, i get the whole civil liberties thing but really, this goes beyond belief.

Regards,

Lee

[gaystoryman]

Its a mixed up world, but I agree, you have to defend everyone's right to free speech, no matter how distatseful it is... :coffee:

[basschick]

it makes sense to me.

either we ALL have a right to free speech or none of us do...

[desslock]

Yes. For free speech / first amendment reasons, the ACLU has always opposed hate crimes laws as well.

Steve

[Marc]

You guys are siding with the Westboro Baptist Church on this? If you die and they protest your funeral, you think these people have the right to get in your moms face and yell at and harass her because you were gay? Thats what youre supporting.
Fred Phelps is a swell guy, he's just making your family feel like shit about themselves and you, at your funeral.

[CJ-KJCash]

As disgusting as I find these people, the ACLU stand up for the civil rights of anyone, and very often people that I dont agree with. But I have to remember that as disgusting as I find some of their clients, there are a lot of people out there (the Westboro folks are a prime example) that think I am I every bit as evil as I do them.

Are they right? No. Do they have a right to voice their opinion?? Yes. I agree with Patti, either everybody has free speech or no one does. And thankfully the ACLU has taken the position that they are not to judge their clients, only represent their interests and leave their personal agendas at home.

I actually interviewed with them back in the days when I was working as a Paralegal. I did a lot of soul searching over that and found that I would not be able to put my personal views aside so I turned down the job. But I continue to have great respect for the work they do, even if I detest the people they are working for.

That said, I would love to see some of those good ol' boys in Kentucky grab their baseball bats and show some "freedom of expression". I dont know if I could resist if they showed up at the funeral of a loved one.

[basschick]

i am certainly not siding with them but the laws that allow adult entertainment, edgy art, freedom to write almost any political statement guarantee their rights as well. without those rights, NONE of us would have freedom of speech.

You guys are siding with the Westboro Baptist Church on this? If you die and they protest your funeral, you think these people have the right to get in your moms face and yell at and harass her because you were gay? Thats what youre supporting.
Fred Phelps is a swell guy, he's just making your family feel like shit about themselves and you, at your funeral.

[chadknowslaw]

I have served on the Board of Directors for the Arizona branch of the ACLU and am still on the legal review panel. The legal review panel is the committee that decides what cases to take on and which ones to pass. I think I know what the ACLU is doing when it takes on such a position.
The ACLU does seem to side with "the bad guys" sometimes-the ACLU would side with the Nazi party that wanted to have a parade through a jewish neighborhood and they will side with someone that wants to peacefully protest after a law has been passed restricting protests. The ACLU really is not "on the side" of the Phelps clan, the ACLU opposes laws that restrict the right to peaceable assemble and to voice opinions. Sometimes that means defending the rights of someone that has an unpopular viewpoint--they are not defending what Phelps says, they are defending against an encroachment on a constitutional right.
With Phelps and his vile group it is hard to defend his actions, but what really is upsetting is his vile message, and because of that vile message many of us think we are willing to trample on the constitution because we so strongly disagree with the message. The trouble is that now we have made a choice to limit speech based on its message, and that is what is wrong.
Phelps crew was not getting enough coverage protesting gay events or gay funerals and many times those protests backfired because gay-friendly groups staged peaceful and larger counter protests or used Phelps as a means to raise money for their cause [people would pledge $1 to a gay organization for every minute Phelps protested]. Now they are getting the attention they want; they thrive on drama and the outrageous.

Basschick is very correct that either everybody has the freedom of speech or none of us does. Nobody here or the ACLU is taking Phelps side, but simply taking the position that restrictions on peaceful protests are unconstitutional.

[Marc]

i am certainly not siding with them but the laws that allow adult entertainment, edgy art, freedom to write almost any political statement guarantee their rights as well. without those rights, NONE of us would have freedom of speech.

Basschick, please dont take this personally because I think youre a fabulous person and have nothing against you.

The current law DOES ALLOW fred phelps to protest funerals. as lee said
The Kentucky state law states that protests can only be within 300 feet of memorial services, wakes and burials.

The ACLU is saying that 300 feet away is too far. the protesters should be allowed to get into the faces of the family members who are mourning and yell at them.

If, God forbid, you die, would you want these people to be able to protest your funeral and yell at your family members that you were a pig and they are pigs for being in your family, and theyre going to hell and you are too?
do you think thats fair to your family?
Or do you think its more fair for people to protest from 300 feet away, so the family members of the deceased have a right to privacy and a right not to be attacked during the funeral of someone they love?

What about victims rights here?

People SHOULD have the right not to be harassed when going to a funeral, even if the person who died was gay. Despite what the ACLU thinks

[Marc]

The ACLU really is not "on the side" of the Phelps clan, the ACLU opposes laws that restrict the right to peaceable assemble and to voice opinions.

they're not peaceful though. Theyre getting in the families faces and telling them their deceased family members deserved to die.
I mean how about some fucking humanity? Its a funeral!
Peaceful protest is whats on the books now, 300 feet away.

My gay best friend just died and it was hard enough dealing with that, if there were a bunch of protesters there Id be a basket case right now. Id be so angry Id be shaking.
Its so unfair.

[gaystoryman]

I don't think anyone would enjoy their family being harassed by his sad ass group, however if you limit how far away, what happens when they insist on pushing your protest 500 feet away? 1000 feet away? 5000 feet away? By pushing them away you are still limiting their right to speech, what would you do if it was a gay rights group protesting BUsh's stance and they were limited to being 300 feet away, out of site of the cameras and news groups?

I hate phelps, and his demogogues, but if he is limited, pushed back, who will be next? the GLBT group protesting same sex marraige bans?

[Marc]

I cant believe people are fighting for the right of grieving family members to be yelled at and harassed at the funeral of a loved one.
Im so stunned im laughing now.
I hope a lot of ACLU members stop donating, because this is beyond vile.
No mention of this on their website, naturally
http://www.aclu.com/

[jIgG]

someone once said something along the lines of - free speech is speech you don't like

[chadknowslaw]

I cant believe people are fighting for the right of grieving family members to be yelled at and harassed at the funeral of a loved one.
Im so stunned im laughing now.
I hope a lot of ACLU members stop donating, because this is beyond vile.
No mention of this on their website, naturally
http://www.aclu.com/

Marc, I have not done any background checking on how the ACLU is involved.

However, I am familiar with the Phelps clan standard method of operations. They do follow all the rules and they videotape their protests. Phelps protests are usually very quick, they get in, they hold up their signs and shout for 15 minutes, and they get out.

The 300 foot boundary is greater than the boundary upheld by the US Supreme Court in allowing abortion protesters at abortion clinics. If Kentucky had followed what has been upheld before, I highly doubt the ACLU would have anything to do with the case.
The ACLU takes cases on principal, not because they support the message or the people speaking. The ACLU is also a confederation of state-level organizations that function very independently from the national, so the Kentucky ACLU may take on a case that the California ACLU does not.

We must remember that often we have the strangest of allies in the fight for freedom. Back in the 1970's and 80's religious organizations were fighting to have schools and public buildings allow student religious groups to meet after school because the rules prohibited religious groups from renting public space. The religious groups won, so that all groups were treated equally and they were allowed to rent space like any other group. Thanks to religions and that line of rulings, gay groups must be treated the same as any other and be allowed to use meeting spaces.
Many who disagreed with the religions getting equal access praise that access when it benefits them and vice versa. It is a good example of freedom for everybody or freedom for nobody. Our freedom of speech means that our idiot neighbors have the same freedoms we do.

[Marc]

What about victims rights?
Does someone have the right not to be harassed and screamed at at their own childs funeral?
Peaceful protest my ass.

Why doesnt Matthew Shepherds mother have the right to go to her sons funeral without being harassed by a pack of animals? Especially after he was beaten to death and left out to die.
And you guys support her getting harassed.

These people who intend to do severe mental and life damage to innocent people have rights, but the victims of this abuse have no way to protect themselves from this.
They have to stand there an take abuse that will scar them for life, and the And the ACLU stands there and supports this.

What about their right to hear the funeral without protesters in the background yelling and disturbing their peace?
Actually what about disturbing the peace? Dont the protesters need a permit to protest?

Whats next for the ACLU? Will they be supporting a seriel rapists right to rape, because if the law stops it then that prevents the rapists first amendment right to blow his load into a victim?
Is harming someone "freedom of speech"?