To DRM or Not to DRM

**Bec** · 06-13-2006, 03:40 PM

Ok aBostonboy - here's something you can use to up your post count!

Now that some companies have tried using a DRM system for protecting their exclusive videos from content thieves and random posting on various internet newsgroups, etc ... I was hoping to get some feedback on how this is or isn't working for you.

Are you getting a lot of crap back from members by using this?

Do you see less signups because of it?

Are you using a DRM that doesn't require they remain a member to view the video once they have it on their hard drive, or are they required to maintain membership to have access to the files?

**Chilihost** · 06-13-2006, 06:53 PM

I had a client that did DRM on his straight teen video site and after 1 year he stopped because:
1) there are loads of known cracks for DRM (just search google for a few thousand sites about this)
2) DRM only works on WMV so say goodbye to your Mac client signups
3) he experienced a lot more chargebacks thanks to the downloaded videos no longer working after the surfer let his membership run out, surfers wrote him very nasty emails saying it was a dirty thing and trickery on his part, even though there was a big warning on the join page all about DRM being used and what it meant
4) overall his new signups were down about 20% and his rebills did not increase

thats just one experience.

cheers,
Luke

abostonboy · 06-13-2006, 07:29 PM

Bec

this is the easiest thing to answer.

And I will take flap on this. For Sure.

Use DRM, but not in your members area.

I DESPISE sites that use DRM. Though i join them off and on.

1. There are lags. Goto Corbin and SC.
2. I am old fashion. To me IF a member pays, I want to deliver a product to him that he is satisfied with.
3. Retention. Two sides. Do members like DRM - NO. Once the novelty of the site wears off, frustration moves in.
4. Conversion - By advertising NO DRM you can get conversuions higher.

Take this as an example

The DVDs are cut up into easily downloaded scenes in three different .wmv formats (128k for modem users, 512k and 1024k for broadband users) and MPEG-4 for iPod. 1024k is as good as DVD! Whether you choose to stream your favorite DVD for instant gratification or download and save the file to your hard disk for viewing later or burn your own XXX DVD collection, its all possible with xyz.com!

To be honest, link to the programs so the surfer can dl your content and burn dvds. They will trust you, thank you, and respect you. And if you are putting up a dvd a week and they are paying $25 bucks for the sute and if its just a small part, it's an even better value.

At the end of the day it will boil down to the quality of the product you offer the customer and the respect you have for them.

And keep one thing in mind, not everyone is always connected to the net for streaming, and at times I may wanna view a movie I downloade to my laptop when i am travellingg and cant log on to verify.

When to use DRM - use drm when u send clips to the p2p networks. LOL. after they view a clip for x amount of minutes you can send them to a signup page to see more. Talk to the guys at ccbill about this.

abostonboy · 06-13-2006, 07:32 PM

Bec,

Now it's your turn.

Can you PM the CMS you use in asian town?

Or guide me in a direction....

**Lee** · 06-13-2006, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by abostonboy

When to use DRM - use drm when u send clips to the p2p networks. LOL. after they view a clip for x amount of minutes you can send them to a signup page to see more. Talk to the guys at ccbill about this.

Last time i spoke to CCBill about this and National-Net, the functionality to redirect the surfer to a join page after X amount of minutes wasnt available.

Likewise, you can no longer pop a console on P2P distributed media since the Media Player update a year or two ago.

Regards,

Lee

abostonboy · 06-13-2006, 07:35 PM

Chili,

I can't agree with you more man.

I was a paid member of some of these str8 boy sites for like months on end.

When Corbin went to a one view a day I told him to fuck off. Never joined again. EVER!

Bec,

I can talk to you about p2p. IF you have exclusive content don't be afraid of p2p. Embrace it in your marketing program. Learn to love it.

My aim is abostonboy2003

the p2p is something that's too much to explain here.

abostonboy · 06-13-2006, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Lee

Last time i spoke to CCBill about this and National-Net, the functionality to redirect the surfer to a join page after X amount of minutes wasnt available.

Likewise, you can no longer pop a console on P2P distributed media since the Media Player update a year or two ago.

Regards,

Lee

Lee,

You are flat out wrong. There are several ways you can do it.

First you encode the video and add the script to the html page where you want them to goin using encoder.

Second, you get a sku for the video and issue a silent license. If you have sent a 10 min vid and set up the silent licencse it will let them play the video once and at the end pop up the script you used when u encoded the video.

Remember you have control over this silent licensce. You can put many vids on there set up the licences right and then basically kill the content after x amount of dl's.

I AM SORYY WHEN I SAID DRM PUTS THE URL IN. That's you, not DRM, but its a no brainer really to do that.

Bottom line - You can have a video on a p2p network that a user download and after one play goes to any page you want. And you have some flexibilty as to how many times he can play. And the user may not even notice the video is DRM protected as you are issuing a silent license.

Trust me.

abostonboy · 06-13-2006, 08:24 PM

And on a standard media player install goto options -> security and see what the default settings are and think for a few minutes....

**Bec** · 06-13-2006, 10:57 PM

Appreciate the feedback so far. Has anyone else tried using DRM and what are your experiences with it in a paysite scenario?

abostonboy · 06-14-2006, 07:35 PM

Bec,

just signup to Corbin Fisher for like 30 days. And keep randomly checking back and watching the movies.

You will see how NOT to execute DRM.

I will never join that site again and would have charged back if I wanted to be a prick.

**basschick** · 06-14-2006, 11:07 PM

there are a lot of members who cancel and come back in three months to see all the updates. if the videos they downloaded stop working, they're less likely to be back.

**CorbinFisher_BD** · 06-15-2006, 02:41 AM

Abostonboy I'd rather you had a bit more of an understanding about the nature of our DRM implementation and how we use it before going out and saying things that are inaccurate and untrue.

It's highly irresponsible of you to make such unfounded statements.

I think you'll find that CorbinFisher implements DRM is the most user-friendly way possible. And the fact of the matter is that we go to great lengths, expend great amounts of energy and resources and work extremely hard at creating the content we do and have every right to protect it from theft and unauthorized distribution.

- For one, our licenses are permanent. A user joins the site and they are able to watch that video forever, so long as it's kept on the same computer. We do not terminate the license once the membership has expired. When someone download that video to their harddrive, it is theirs to keep.

- There is no "one view a day" rule. You can view that video as many times as you want so long as it is on the same computer the license resides on. The only time you would run in to a situation that could in any way be perceived as a "one view a day" rule is if you are attempting to view the video on a computer that is different from the one you originally downloaded it to and acquired the license on or you are attempting the view the video from different computers at the same time.

On any given day and with any given update, you can stream the video, return to download it, return to stream it yet again, watch the downloaded version infinite times, download and stream the various video sizes/options we have (you can stream and/or download the low res and high res videos all day long for all we care, so long as it's from the same computer the license was first acquired on).

You can do this everyday. For as long as you and your computer live.

- We receive considerable amounts of praise and expressed appreciation from our members who appreciate our right and desire to protect our content and how user-friendly our DRM implementation is. Most notably, they are extremely content with our permanent license policy.

- You would have been one of the only people to have ever chargedback with our site, had you done so. I have no problem sharing here that our current chargeback rate is 0.000014%. And that's with our DRM. With, I might ad, our DRM that you seem to think sprung forth from the depths of hell itself.

I hear a lot of talk here about conversion and how DRM might negatively influence conversion. I'm of the belief that is a one-dimensional view of it. Is it possible that DRM could negatively influence conversion? It is. People mention the loss of Mac users, hostility among surfers and so forth.

But there are dimensions to the issue that go far beyond that and show that DRM is entirely capable of improving conversion by preventing the hemorrhaging of content. How badly would a complete and total loss of control over content; it being freely, readily available any and everywhere without requiring a membership; there being not only a wave but a culture of piracy surrounding that producers content influence conversion? I'd say it'd hit it far worse than the loss of 2-3% of surfers who are limited to Macs.

We don't allow Mac users to join our site. They simply can not do it. Our system will not let them. That helps prevent them from going through the trouble of joining only to find out they can not view the videos, and eliminates the possibility of chargebacks from disgruntled Mac users. Was that a decision we took lightly? Most certainly not. We spent an incredible amount of time obsessing over every minute aspect of our membership and concluded that it was better for us as well as our affiliates to sacrifice the 2-3% of members confined to Macs than the 25-30% that'd be lost on account of hopelessly easy access to pirated content.

Before making the jump to the producer/sponsor side of the industry, I myself ran a high-volume-traffic affiliate website. I ran a poll of my surfers asking them where they got their videos from a couple highly popular sites that did not use DRM. Out of the many hundreds that responded to my poll, less than 5% actually got them from joining the site. The rest got the videos from p2p, friends, free hosting sites, and so forth. Everyone was stealing this producer's stuff. Not a single person in this entire industry has any right to tell that producer he's not entitled to protect his content in the face of that kind of blatant thievery.

As for this:

1. There are lags. Goto Corbin and SC.
2. I am old fashion. To me IF a member pays, I want to deliver a product to him that he is satisfied with.
3. Retention. Two sides. Do members like DRM - NO. Once the novelty of the site wears off, frustration moves in.
4. Conversion - By advertising NO DRM you can get conversuions higher.

1. One rare occasion there can be a slight lag as information is passed from the licensing server to the user. That is true. But to suggest that it is something so severe as to interfere with the experience of the surfer is a poor conclusion to make. We rarely, if ever, receive complaints regarding any lag. Our users find that our videos load very promptly and that the license acquisition phase of viewing does not interrupt their enjoyment of the content. This is the internet. There are countless times at which a person might experience lag and countless reasons. To try and isolate lag allegedly or potentially associated with DRM as some debilitating handicap misrepresents the nature of it.

2. Delivering content that satisfies the user and protecting that content with DRM are not mutually exclusive.

3. Our members enjoy our content so much that they are able to understand and appreciate why we have DRM in place. In fact, our single greatest source of tips regarding potential violations of our copyright are the members themselves. They enjoy and appreciate the content so much they eagerly pay for it and bring to our attention anyone that doesn't so that we may take appropriate action.

4. Again, a very one-dimensional view. For every one person that joins because they see "no drm!", how many potential members have you lost on account of their easily finding it for free somewhere else?

Quite frankly, DRM is one of many supplemental aspects of conversion and retention. There are countless matters that can have nominal - in relation to the whole - effects on conversion and retention. But at the very core of a sites ability to convert and retain is a single factor: CONTENT. If it is hot, if it turns people on, if it gets people off, you can convert and retain. And if you're creating something that is hot, turns people on and gets people off, you are entitled to protect your content and your ability to convert and retain through all legal means.

abostonboy · 06-15-2006, 02:51 AM

Ok Corbin.

i joined for a month. On three serapate occasions your authorization server was down.

explain ho wthat hepls a surfer.

AND I am not the only one. I mentioned that I hate DRM cause I wnet to a site I joined an on 3 occasions I could not watch as the server was down.

I mentioned to another in the biz. Who is respected. And this person said I had the same issue. We both spit out your site at the same time.

explain that.