Crazy Stuff...

[Lee]

Whats with programs telling newbie webmasters to start out in the indusry TGPing these days? :wtf:

I mean seriously, if a webmaster hasnt been doing this even 1 week, telling them to get a paid host and start submitting galleries to the TGPs is a sure-fire way of ensuring they fail.

They most likely cant even market properly and these programs are telling them to start posting one of the most intensive bandwidth burning traffic sources out there :eek:

A heads up for any newbies reading this, if you want to start on TGPs thats fine but a better suggestion would be to hone your building and marketing skills first otherwise, you'll more than likely just end up with a huge BW bill.

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

TGP is my least favorite forum of traffic, I do wish more TGP’s would take free hosts. Personally I think most of these TGP owners do not understand how worthless there traffic can be with very low profit margins sometimes. I know some good reasons why TGP do not like free host, but if you think about it I would beadle to create better, bigger, more flashier galleries for their viewers, rather than just worrying about the size on the graphics and images more than about anything else :cry:

[Lee]

TGP is my least favorite forum of traffic, I do wish more TGP’s would take free hosts. Personally I think most of these TGP owners do not understand how worthless there traffic can be with very low profit margins sometimes. I know some good reasons why TGP do not like free host, but if you think about it I would beadle to create better, bigger, more flashier galleries for their viewers, rather than just worrying about the size on the graphics and images more than about anything else :cry:

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

Have you been smoking Crack man? Or just trying to be a dick? Go down the list and tell me how far you have to go to find a tread I have posted in and how many even on this whole page that I have made 1 post on, then let us know what you find out

[DEVELISH]

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

Gosh, Lee,

guess your problem is you don't work half as hard as Sean does. If you would work as hard as Sean you would have much more time to reply to the threads on this forum - you could even have dialogues with yourself.

So get your shit together and start working, man

[maxpower]

By my count I only posted in 5 thread on this whole page 2 of the were either created by me or about me that is less that 15% but who’s counting not you I take it.

[gaystoryman]

TGP traffic is good traffic when it is used by someone who knows what they are doing. Those who don't understand TGP traffic or how to utilize it are the first to bitch about how poor it is.

I agree Lee, don't understand why so many suggest TGP as the way for a newbie to go. Personally I recommend a simple free site to get a feel for building, design and marketing, gradually building up their skills as they explore the other venues open to them.

[dannyz]

In my experience, TGP has:

1. the worst conversions
2. the worst customer retention
3. the largest amount of customers that chargeback and/or trade passwords

In my opinion starting out with a TGP would be the worst choice...

[abostonboy]

TGP traffic is good traffic when it is used by someone who knows what they are doing. Those who don't understand TGP traffic or how to utilize it are the first to bitch about how poor it is.

I agree Lee, don't understand why so many suggest TGP as the way for a newbie to go. Personally I recommend a simple free site to get a feel for building, design and marketing, gradually building up their skills as they explore the other venues open to them.

First of all Sean and since Lee started, I will finish. No newbie should start with a FREE host. Firstly, even in the old days when Free hosts were everywhere, they just stole your best advertising spots. Now with a free host and 2257. you have serious issues. They should start on the right foot. Have a virtual domain or a small dedicated where they can look at the stats. That is important to ANYONE in this business.

Second, I ran a link list for five or six years, maybe longer, and I NEVER alowed free hosted sites. For reasons that go on this scope of this thread. But anyone with half a clue knows the reasons.

Lee,

Times are a changing as you said. And honestly TGPs are good for many newbies. Sure they can't market properly, sure the first month the BW bill will be high, but when I first started it was $5 a gig, now it's around .50. BUT and this is a BIG but. It will take a surfer MUCH longer to master the art of making a sale with Link Lists than tgp because they will not get the huge traffic they get with tgp.

If they burn through 5 galleries and each gallery uses a few gigs and they don't make a sale, then a motivated newbie will go and figure out what he's doing wrong. And fix it. And then the skills he learned, maybe a better sponor, better designed gallery etc can carry over to his Link List skills.

The problem with Links Lists is that MANY of the bigger reject overused content even more so that Tgp's. And the traffic is not there. so mistakes beocome less obvious, or even a newbie could be doing everything right and still not get a sale. I know that I personally know how to make a site that sells and nowadays can submit it to the LL's nd maybe not make a sale. My next site a week later with the same layout and sponsors may make 5 sales. A motivated newbie may be under the impression that his first site was done wrong when it wasn't. then he creates another that's even worse. Then his third that is different than the first gets rejected for overused content. And lets not forget there is an art and science to both sites and galleries. The art of creating a better selling site is IMHO a steeper learning curve than a gallery. The trickle of traffic affect that happens in the LL market and how surfers respond is not as fast as in the tgp market. And content costs for enough sites in the LL market is extremely high.

This business is not what it was a few years ago. There needs to be a new class of newbie. The days of picking a free host, grabbing any cheap content you find, and making money are long gone. A newbie coming in now has to realize one hard fact - No matter what road he takes there is a learning curve and during that learning curve he will lose money.

IMHO if a newbie coming in can't take the BW risks, especially since the cost is so low compared to years ago. Then he really most likely is not the new breed of newbie that will ultimately make it in this industry.

Three years ago I would have recommended a newbie start with AVS. But now Avs traffic has dried up, avs sytems (the bigger ones) require cleaner pages. So the avs model has gone from one of leeching to forcing a webmaster to actually sell his site to make the most money.

The free site market is a bitch now. Just ask any LL owner how many sites he rejects in a day.

IMHO. the best way to learn anything or test anything, is with massive traffic/exposure. TGP's provide a model in that in a versy short period of time you can test many new ideas and ways of doin things for maximum game. If a newbie can't handle this now, it's a sad fact that he should not be in the business.

[abostonboy]

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

Lee,

Seriously, I was under the impression you paid him to post.

No sarcasm whatsoever.

[abostonboy]

In my experience, TGP has:

1. the worst conversions
2. the worst customer retention
3. the largest amount of customers that chargeback and/or trade passwords

In my opinion starting out with a TGP would be the worst choice...

The worst conversion, yes. But that can be filtered. And TGP traffic does better with a trial. Conceringretention, I would recommend a PPS so the webmaster doesnt stress so much. Part 3 if a newbie uses a PPS model he doesnt warry as much about it. Though IF all he sends is charge backs, then he may have an issue.

There are still SOME Tgp's out there that have traffic that can retain. But those tgps are not the ones that are just skimming like crazy. They built up bookmarkers.

[maxpower]

One how does everyone know my name :eek:? 2 most of what people said did not disagree with what I said, if they are having problems with their bandwidth on TGP’s at first cutting into profits I think a GOOD free host could help in the learning curve while not making the go broke at the same time, would be a limited amount of them they could use but would get their feet wet. 3 of course this type of traffic is about the worst in the world, really to say much different is just argumentative.

[abostonboy]

One how does everyone know my name :eek:? 2 most of what people said did not disagree with what I said, if they are having problems with their bandwidth on TGP’s at first cutting into profits I think a GOOD free host could help in the learning curve while not making the go broke at the same time, would be a limited amount of them they could use but would get their feet wet. 3 of course this type of traffic is about the worst in the world, really to say much different is just argumentative.

No comment.

[maxpower]

Hey Boston how about changing your name to Bean Boy :bush: Dont get mad was just a joke

[abostonboy]

Max,

Once again a thread turns fucking useless.

To bring it on track and answer your point about free hosts.

1. they are far and few between now.
2. They take you best ad spots.
3. They fuck with your international traffic and you don'e even know it.
4. You are not 2257 compiant unless the free host is a sponsor free host and owns the content.
5. If four is the case, chances are the tgp has all the content in hosted galleries anyways.
6. Why reccommend a newbie get banned from a tgp before he gets his first gallery us as most don't acceprt them.

7. I AM WRONG - YOU ARE RIGHT. So to all those trying to learn something listen to Max.

Max you are back on my ignore list. I thought it was unprifessional to do so. So I lifted you. But someone posts something to help a newbie and you give a reply that's half off topic and clearly shows that you have noot been posting to big tgp galleries that much on free hosts. And if you have please reveal which tgps accept whiche free hosts and which free hosts I am legal to use my own content on and still be 2257. And show me whiche free hosts doesnt fuck with internation traffic. Contribute your experience not your ignorance.

I gave a different view point than Lee but I backed it up with my experience. Unlike you that just throws shit out your ass. And a newbie should way in the different factors. Going boths routes can lead to disaster. The TGP route maybe faster. But fuck, I would rather know in a month with maybe a $200 bandwith bill and $100 in content if it wasn't for me than spend three months with a $90 bw bill (asuuming u are on a $30/ month plan) and dropping $300 in content figuring out the same thing. The other two months would give me time to try ebay or something else.