Video producers vs. online producers

[CorbinFisher_BD]

I always get a kick out of how little regard some video companies (meaning adult companies who primarily are known for and make their money off of DVD/retail sales) have for the online segment of the industry. Some of them think that online content isn't real content, that just by being produced for the internet, it's automatically inferior to what is produced for online. This higher than thou attitude some video producers have when comparing themselves to online producers.

I think that has a lot to do with why some video companies that attempt to start making money in the online market mess up doing it so much. Have sites that just don't sell or retain, have no idea how to run or manage an affiliate program, have no idea what the best way to deliver their content is or effectively operate a paysite/vod service/etc.

Just kind of an amusing anecdote about it all... within the last year we had a model working for us that did a few scenes. Not even one of our primary models. 3 scenes and that was it. He had been in some DVDs for a rather large DVD company before coming to work for us, but we decided not to use his stagename he had before and switched it to a name we felt fit our site and his image better. After appearing on our site, his old porn name was practically forgotten as everyone just new him by the name he had on our site and referred to him as that.

He ended up doing a video for an even larger video/DVD company, using his new name (given by us), and I ran in to someone from that company and the subject of the model came up and the guy was like "It will be interesting for him when his DVD comes out and people start recognizing him on the street because he's in this big release now."

Well... the video came out in the summer and since then, according to the model, he's only ever been recognized on the street and online as "XXXXX from CorbinFisher". That he's yet to run in to anyone that's recognized him from this "big video from this major company". He was even the DVD's cover model.

I've yet to mention that to the guy from the video company . And kept the company and models name outta this post so as not to rub it in.

I mean I'm not trying to sound snooty. I just think that some of these big video companies need to appreciate the fact that us online producers are very well capable of delivering faces and content to consumers above and beyond what they're capable of.

Anyways, just had to vent, because I just got done reading a quote by another person from another video company about a former model of ours and how they will now be a big star because they're doing all these DVDs for them. Something to the effect of "Now that he's making real movies, he can really become famous", like being a model for an online producer simply doesn't offer that potential.

[basschick]

oh, man - you are SOOOOO right **

i'm always hearing from producers who have a successful line of DVDs and a failing website. they are usually difficult to deal with because they don't want to stop doing what they're doing in their sites - the sites that aren't working. they want to keep doing it and magically increase sales and retention.

there can be as much art, labor and know-how in adult site content as in DVD content, and added to that you have to know all sorts of things like site layout, update schedules, realistic bitrate and size for member content. i'm helping someone right now whose editor sent them quicktime videos that were a full gig each to use in their site and we're not talking HD or extremely high quality, either. he also sent 200mb clips for dialup users *LOLOLOL*

and some of them are so snotty about it sometimes, too - never more than when what they're saying is totally wrong.

ah, DVD producers and editors - they have so much to learn

[CorbinFisher_BD]

And the 50% affiliate commission is like some alien idea . Cuz they're used to dealing with such small margins the idea of sacrificing 50% blows em away.

Not saying that all video companies are like this. There are some that have done extremely well once pursuing the online market. There are others who did crappy at the start, but then learned quickly and adjusted to the market.

Then there are just the ones who don't care cuz they're convinced they know it all, and also think that everything they produce has been touched by God Himself compared to whatever's made online. When, in fact, they might be shocked to learn that a lot of people out there prefer stuff from primarily (or entirely) online producers compared to what they create.

[gaybucks_chip]

I've noticed the same thing. It's like they are two COMPLETELY different mindsets.

We used to use the same DVD replicator as one of the very largest gay adult producers. Through a brilliant screw-up by our replicator, 200 pieces of our title "Tastes like Twinks" got manufactured, DVD disc art printed, packaged and shrinkwrapped... but actually contained a leather title with fisting in it produced by said studio.

Needless to say, the customers that bought the defectives weren't pleased... but the interesting part was that the replicator let slip that the production run for that title was about 15,000 pieces. And that was well-marketed popular title for one of the very largest studios.

So what these DVD studios don't get is at maximum, they will get 15,000 sets of eyeballs, plus maybe a few thousand more from rentals... while the online models get all the cycling through of members of a given site PLUS all the visibility of all the affiliates promoting said model through galleries, etc.

I think it's probably a case of "old guard" people not realizing how much the market has changed. And unfortunately, they probably won't get it until their way of doing things is either completely gone or so marginalized that the revenue model no longer makes sense

[SPACE GLIDER]

I think it's probably a case of "old guard" people not realizing how much the market has changed.

I'll bet that's what it is. Can't imagine all this hostility I've been hearing about coming from folks who aren't closed to change.

[A_DeAngelo]

oh now...

this is all so unfair! we struggle to deal with the net, that's true however, I have read over and over all of the problems people have with brick and mortar, an dvd covers and replicators and distribution, etc. etc....

and don't forget everyone that a lot of the stuff that's sold and cut up for the net comes from DVDs that are produced by us DVD producers...

I know that "some" is not "all" of us and I must agree that there are many DVD houses out there that do have to work an attitude adjustment of sorts

I do know that we have received great help and support from "both" sides of the fence in terms of production and post production know how.

After all, who chose Pornography as their course of study in school?!?!

[CorbinFisher_BD]

I'm not necessarily talking about just the technological aspects of creating online stuff.

I'm talking about the perception that DVD is inherently bigger than online. That DVD is inherently more legitimate, popular, well-known, widespread, and so on.

A lot of DVD producers might be shocked to find out that there are more people out there associating their new marquee exclusive model on the cover of their last couple DVDs with a website he appeared on long ago than associating that model with that DVD producer. That the website actually got more eyes, exposure, etc.

[A_DeAngelo]

nothing "shocks" me in this industry any more!

[allboysvideo]

To be sucessful nowadays you have to be both a DVD producer and a producer of content...

There are many that are still "stuck" in the 80's and 90's mentality and many of the "old school" porn thinking is still around. Many producers of DVDs are from the old school and much of this new technology is foriegn to many of those that produce DVD and not content for websites.

I for one am a producer for DVDs and we also produce content for certain websites however we don't run the sites, I must say that producing DVDs is much easier for us and to produce content is much easier but to running a site, my hats off to those that can film and market there sites and work with TGPs and network and run an affiliate programs and Etc..its seems you guys that produce content for your websites and own your own websites work 24/7 and have no life. There are many owners of very sucessful websites that I know and they are working many, many hours...filming, uploading, marketing there affiliates, promoting, tweaking there sites, submitting to TGPS...its mind boggling:drunk:

Just my two cents worth....:nobody:

[gaybucks_chip]

Totally agree with both David and Tony.

I'm not trying to imply that DVD producers are all in the dark ages; they know their craft well and do it well and make good money off of it. And many of the web-only people who are brilliant online marketers are probably equally inept at producing DVDs.

The reality is the two areas are just totally different. The appeal is different, what makes the customer buy is different... in many cases even the way the content is edited is different.

Both the DVD people and the online people do their jobs well. I think Brian's point was that some of the DVD studios act like they're the shit and having a model on a DVD is a huge big deal when, in fact, a lot more eyeballs will see a well-marketed model from a popular website. And for whatever reason, a lot of the DVD people simply don't get that.

We've been lucky enough to develop a lot of visibility for our DVD lines (18 West Studios and Cuteboyvideos) but it's come through a LOT of hard work (mostly on AJ's part), trial and error, some dismal mistakes... not to mention the whole issue of having to warehouse 10,000 DVDs, dealing with manufacturers who are sloppy or late, cranky authoring software, etc. David may make it sound like a walk in the park, but that's because he's been doing it a long time and knows the ins and outs. For someone coming from an online background, there are a lot of pitfalls, in the same way that someone coming from physical product will find a lot of pitfalls in the online world.

I think that both areas require a lot of skill and knowledge, and we're definitely still learning both sides of the business. But as AJ and I have told many people, if we were starting over from scratch today, I would probably skip content creation entirely and focus on traffic. A lot less hassle, total flexibility with scheduling your time, no cranky or flaky models to deal with.

[desslock]

Remember Burt Reynolds mindset in Boogie Nights.....

Steve

[citiboyz]

We've been involved on both the DVD and internet sides for many years, and have an appreciation for both, and how they reinforce each other. Like Brian says, it's foolish for a DVD producer to claim superiority.

[TropixxxStudios]

We did DVD's only for about 5 years...finally launching our first paysite last March. I was shocked (in a good way) how quickly the online side of things quickly took over as our leading source of revenue.

We now have re-vamped our DVD site...only selling a few titles...and are using all the old DVD's we had as content for our VOD site.

I wish I knew then what I know now...but you wont see many more DVD's from us in the future.

Just my $0.02

- Michael

[hdkbill]

We started HDK as an online retailer for our (back then) VHS. The web has been very good to us. Those of you that know us know that we are as serious about the web as we are about offline retail and wholesale sales.

I think any DVD producer who is going to be successful in this business AND in the current market, better be doing both. As Desslock said about Burt Reynolds......the DVD producers better get rid of the mindset that selling just retail or wholesale offline is the only way to go......or they will be the ones who be going, going, gone!

Bill
Hot Desert Knights