If you were just starting with your first site, which would you pick, and why.
Epoch
CCbill
Other
If you were just starting with your first site, which would you pick, and why.
Okay there are only 3 people online, so I know what each of you voted.. but you didn't say why!
This is a really tough call.
Three months ago, I would have said, without question, ccbill because they had the better affiliate software. But now Epoch has MPA-3 with cascading billing for free, and that's a pretty persuasive feature.
CCBill seems to have a little more depth in technical support, but I've never had a problem that Epoch couldn't resolve promptly.
And... Epoch has Patrick, who is a great resource and a strong supporter of the gay adult community (who, of course, Epoch stole from CCBill) and Rainey, formerly of Pridebucks.
I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either company, but I gotta say that Epoch is pulling out all the stops to get gay business.
This is exactly what I am thinking... right now I will not be starting without Nats, but will be moving over within 6 months of starting. My only thing that I have that is going FOR ccbill is the affiliates. I have actually had a person say, if you sign up for ccbill I will promote it.Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
So my thinking is, that CCbill obviously has built up the trust in people, and if one person thinks that, how many more of them are there?
I am about to open a Epoch affiliate program, and in fact I think I will get more than a few people join just to see the new and improved stats they offer affiliates. Not sure anyone can say they do not trust Epoch they have been around longer than Ccbill and really with people in the know are more trusted.
Thanks, that is good to know.. I am going to talk with them tomorrow about their services and such.
Ya they have made some big strides here lately, they really are the best processor IMO
To tell the whole truth I do have some problems with Ccbill, but I still think they offer site owners a better service now days
Epoch has had its share of complaints over its stats and support -- but they seem to be addressing or have addressed those issues.
CC Bill has a solid reputation, good support, solid history..
I think the CC Bill application process is a tad easier than Epoch.
If my evaluations ended there, I think it is a toss-up.
HOWEVER~
Since Patrick went to Epoch I do not believe that there is a single openly gay person in middle or upper level management at CC Bill. That is something that I find suspicious -- a company of that size, with that many employees, and they have straight guys soliciting gay companies. I have a lot of respect for the guys from CC Bill and I think they are top notch, but as a company CC Bill is kind of lacking in truly gay representation. CC Bill does have the Gay Phoenix Forum which is great but I just can't let go of the fact that a company of 100+ employees without a single gay person in management or even sales -- and Epoch, as a smaller company, could field an all-gay company softball team. Epoch definitely sends out a more diverse crew -- male, female, gay, straight, all colors, languages, and ethnic backgrounds. Now that I think of it, with the exception of Sherri WHO I LOVE, CC Bill is just white men.
If I were starting a gay paysite, I would want good reporting, good support, financial stability AND a company that not only throws money at the gay market but has diversity within its own ranks, and to me that puts the nod to Epoch.
Chad Belville, Esq
Phoenix, Arizona
www.chadknowslaw.com
Keeping you out of trouble is easier than getting you out of trouble!
I vote epochSame reasons that have been mentioned already.
And Chad, great post
I use Epoch
:-D
CCBill does, in fact, have a number of gay guys who work there, but they aren't out, and probably aren't in upper management either... Patrick mentioned this to me some time ago, and I sort of got the impression that perhaps it wasnt' quite as accepting a culture internally.
However, I have to say that Andy, our sales rep has been totally open and welcoming and I've never gotten even the slightest homophobic vibe from him.
I haven't found either the Epoch or CCBill process to be appreciably different in setting up -- both were easy for us -- but then again, we started processing with ccbill in 2002, so it may be more complex now.
BTW, dean, if you go with Epoch, I don't really see any reason to go with NATS over MPA3. If you were *paying* for MPA, I'd say get NATS instead -- lots of people have gone from MPA to NATS, but no one that I know of has gone NATS to MPA -- but if MPA is free with Epoch, I'd say go with that.
If we were in a different place and hadn't gone with NATS last year, we might well be considering the Epoch/MPA deal. The only thing that makes me uncomfortable is the REQUIREMENT that Epoch be first in the cascade. I mean, I completely understand it and think it's reasonable, given that the software is free, but I like the flexibility we have to change out processors on a whim if one is scrubbing too hard that day, or slow, or whatever... and Epoch doesn't allow that flexibility unless they are completely down. So that might make it worth paying for NATS if you're anal about redundancy. But other than that, I'd say the free MPA deal with Epoch is hard to beat.
ccbill is best known by a larger number of affiliates and also they allow you to marry multiple programs into one check. that's important if you want non-u.s. webmasters to promote your site, because they have to pay a fairly hefty amount for each check they deposit.
on the other hand, epoch treats webmasters more as individuals. when i call ccbill support, they don't know who i am - but rand and frank at epoch do, and when we were using them, so did tai and several other people there. i liked working with a company that thought of me as a human being. also epoch's new stats are pretty cool and if you want to do cross sales, upsells or stuff like that, i'd say epoch has more experience.
of course, one of the most important features of epoch's new stats - cascading - would mean you should have both epoch AND ccbill accounts. and there are some webmasters out there who would prefer to promote a ccbill-only program, so offering a ccbill only tour as well as an epoch cascading tour might get some affiliates you would have missed.
so my vote is for both. cascading will make you around 10% more sales and offering a main tour through epoch's cascading and also ccbill tour will grab you some more affiliates.
of course, if you go with nats, you can change the order of which processor comes first in the cascade - very useful once in a while...which ALSO means both epoch AND ccbill...
Until Epoch gets their stuff together and allows affiliates to merge all of their accounts into one cheque, I'll always prefer ccbill. Signing up with unique logins for every site you want to promote is a pain.
Michael
Epoch or CCBill?? - response
I happen to be right in the midst of looking for a credit card processor for a new gay site I am building...So thank you to all of you for your valuable information.
As an online surfer / customer I can tell you that I trust CCbill when providing my own credit card information. I don't know why, but I have a trust with CCbill. So my original thought when looking for a CC processor was to go to CCBill.
As a soon to be webmaster, I have solicited information form my other webmaster buddies, and they all seem to converge with CCbill. However, you definitely given me food for thought.
For the somewhat novice guy here...Could I ask what the abbreviations, MPA, MPA3, and NATS all mean??
a good point, and one i've heard from other surfers who are personal friends. they have joined paysites that use ccbill, never had a problem, and feel that they are trustworthy.
MPA, MPA3 and NATS are simply names for the programs. MPA is from mansion productions (the M and P in MPA and MPA3, which is the third released version) and NATS is Next-Generation Administration and Tracking System. they are both tracking systems that allow webmasters much more information and control then simply using epoch or ccbill.
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