How Many Shows Is Too Many Shows?

[mgillis]

Reading the CCBill/Epoch debate has me thinking more about something that has been plaguing me since I put together my 2007 budget - who the He** can afford to go to all of these shows that pop up? And, more importantly, why do they all have to be at the same damn time?

When I started in this industry two years ago, the gay shows included Aee/Internext and Phoenix Forum - we attended others, but these were the two at which we met the bulk of our audience. Now, all of a sudden, Gay is the new Black in the adult tradeshow industry and we are expected to go everywhere (in force) and sponsor something at each event, and throw a party and, and, and...

What no one has convinced me of yet, is their ability to get the webmasters to attend their events (other than PF). The last few shows I've attended (although I've enjoyed each one and done good business at each) have been very much the same faces and very Business2Business with very few indy webmasters in attendance.

Why are the new GayVN Webmaster Retreat, the GPF and Webmaster Access West all within 4 weeks of each other?

I'd like to see a more regional focus, to keep travel costs down and attendance up, so that we are really maximizing our opportunities to meet and greet. I'd like to see the Gay-focused shows spread out over the year, Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 not all lumped together in January and October.

There is room for all of these shows in a yearly calendar, but the way things are set up now is likely just to cause the destruction of one over the other instead of helping our industry as a whole.

Thoughts?

[Lee]

Now, all of a sudden, Gay is the new Black

In terms of the adult industry overall gay has always been the new black but it is really only in the past, id say 4 years that companies have started to embrace gay webmasters, companies and marketers, and in the last 1-2 years a lot of companies (primarily straight owned and operated) have started to seriously put gay offerings on the table as a part of their business plan.

What no one has convinced me of yet, is their ability to get the webmasters to attend their events (other than PF). The last few shows I've attended (although I've enjoyed each one and done good business at each) have been very much the same faces and very Business2Business with very few indy webmasters in attendance.

Indeed, as a company we have made the decision to not attend any of the shows (with the exception of this years GPF) because of exactly that reason, why spend thousands of dollars in airfare, hotel costs and $300+ on a 'pass' to a show where the people we (as a company) want to reach arent in attendance? These days it seems shows have 2 purposes, to get salesmen together, trying to sell the same products to each other, show after show, and to let the hobbyist webmaster get drunk, laid, high on someone elses dime.

Unfortunately, if i want to sell my wares to someone at a show, its not going to be another salesman or program rep, i want to speak to program owners, the ones who make the final decisions, rather than wasting an hour talking to someone about traffic deals, only for it to be shot down by the program owner, despite being told 'yes we'll send traffic' numerous times by the programs rep at the show.

Likewise, those hobbyists that attend the show as freeloaders looking to get fed, drunk, laid and high, i have absolutely no interest in those people, they are the ones who are killing the industry and couldnt send anyone 1000 hits in a day if their lives depended on it. I want to speak to those webmasters that have thousands of hits to send to a program, resulting in sales.

I cant do anything with 1000 hits sent over the space of 12 months which might generate 12 sales.

There is room for all of these shows in a yearly calendar, but the way things are set up now is likely just to cause the destruction of one over the other instead of helping our industry as a whole.

I agree, unfortunately, i beleive that show organizers have forgotten what shows were originally intended for, as a forum for like minded business individuals to get business done, however i dont blame the organizers for this (for the most part) i blame the industry as a whole, there was also a time where boards were used to get business done, instead they have become places where postwhores can make more money posting 1000 threads about pure crap.

As more and more hobbyists entered the industry, discovering at the same time that it actually meant they had to 'work' (novel concept huh? LOL) to make money, programs saw this new breed and started pandering to them, to the extreme.

Now it seems if you want to do well in the business, you have to lie, cheat, steal and pay an army of board whores $0.05 for each post they make, that way, when you get caught lying, cheating, or stealing, you are a 'top notch' or 'stand up' guy so your indescretions are forgotten about almost as quickly as they were discovered, and if you actually bought someone a drink at one of the 'shows' forget it, you could literally murder someone and nobody would bat an eyelid.

So to answer your original question () right now my own opinion is that even 1 show is to many, as long as it follows the same format of all the others whereby it is stuffed with marketing reps, and no actual 'consumers'.

Regards,

Lee

[desslock]

If organizers like those of the Phoenix Forum keep running shows and the hotel books up in three days, then I take it to mean that they are making good money. If the shows are profitable, there will be even more shows.

Only when they start losing money will there be fewer shows.

Steve

[gaybucks_chip]

If organizers like those of the Phoenix Forum keep running shows and the hotel books up in three days, then I take it to mean that they are making good money.
Steve

Phoenix Forum has always been a "break even" event according to CCBill. Of course, I'm sure that there's some "funny money" included in that figure, such as staff time that's probably paid out of the Phoenix Forum budget, but they have always said that all of the sponsor money that comes into the event goes right back out to providing a better program.

That might be different this year... I notice the Phoenix Forum is sponsored by "Forum Partners LLC" rather than CCBill, so they may have turned it into a for-profit event.

What no one has convinced me of yet, is their ability to get the webmasters to attend their events (other than PF). The last few shows I've attended (although I've enjoyed each one and done good business at each) have been very much the same faces and very Business2Business with very few indy webmasters in attendance.

Mary, once again I'm in complete agreement. One of the things that we worked with CCBill on last year was to try and get more "first time" and new webmasters to GPF, and in my book, that's why the AVN shows are so non-worthwhile for us. It's expensive enough to fly and pay for hotels (particularly when you host your event in San Francisco or in Vegas in the middle of CES) and meals. For many newer or up-and-coming webmasters, the cost of a $300 ticket on top of travel, lodging and food makes it out of reach.

When you compare the AVN events to an event such as GPF where the hotel is reasonably priced, meals are included, there's no admission fee... the costs are much more affordable and the event is therefore much more accessible to the growing webmaster, which, for the show organizers with a brain, are the very people that they should be courting, both because the established businesses of all types are looking for new or growing companies to work with, and because the newer webmasters will have opportunities to network with people they have probably never met before.

As for the gay shows being lumped together... you have AVN to thank for that. GPF was already scheduled for October, and AVN clearly knew that, and could very easily have planned their October show to be at another time, but they clearly are trying to squash Gay Phoenix Forum... never mind the fact they weren't the slightest bit interested in a gay show until GPF happened and was successful.

I believe that if the major players in the industry try to work *together* instead of doing petty crap like this, everyone will be a lot more successful in the long run. I just hope that the people making the decisions see that sooner rather than later. It would be a real shame if we lose good opportunities because of one or more company's shortsightedness.

[JFK]

If organizers like those of the Phoenix Forum keep running shows and the hotel books up in three days, then I take it to mean that they are making good money. If the shows are profitable, there will be even more shows.

Only when they start losing money will there be fewer shows.

Steve

as far as I know, the Phoenix forum was always a non profit show, with all proceeds reinvested in the show itself.:thumbsup:

[Madame0120]

Our 1st 2 years in business we did 5 shows a year for 2 years running. This our 3rd year, we are only doing 2- 3 if the Gay Phoenix Forum is mounted.

The shows taken off the schedule were Vegas and Cybernet, the 2 shows that are more straight than gay.

Trade events are a huge chuck of our marketing budget, but for us, the best avenue for networking.

[samebb]

It would be nice to see some big shows in different areas of the world.
Europe, ect.

[Madame0120]

It would be nice to see some big shows in different areas of the world.
Europe, ect.

They put up a bridge across the Big Pond yet? I can't ever imagine being in a plane for that long! Maybe a nice cruise over. Wonder how long that would take?

[mgillis]

A bridge over the pond - no, no, no... my in-laws would visit more often. My only saving grace now is that they are too old to sit on a plane for that long...

I'm not sure why AVN thought that October was a good month for their show. My concern is that people will choose, and the LA people will choose the LA show (which is what I would do to save money) and the GPF will be left behind. OR, people will just stay loyal to the GPF and not bother with the new one (which I doubt). This year, I've added enough cash to my budget to do them all, but I'll be making some big decisions about what we ever attend again.

Decisions already made:
Although the networking at AEE/Internext and Internext Miami is invaluable, we won't take booth space again. We'll continue to throw our Cock&Tail, but no more big sponsorships as the value just isn't there in terms of new business (sorry guys!).
I'll continue to support the GayVN Summit and Awards. It is a show designed for gay businesses and webmasters, and I think they did a good job, especially considering it was the first year for the event.

What's left? Well, the Access shows, the Phoenix Forums, the new Retreat, XBIZ shows... We'll see what else I decide at the end of the year.

A gay-oriented show in Europe would be awesome. Venus Berlin has a huge gay presence, but it is such a massive event that it could never have the focus of a forum and the gay presence seems to get lost there.

[chadknowslaw]

It would be nice to see some big shows in different areas of the world.
Europe, ect.

AOE in Amsterdam this April and Webmaster Access in Amsterdam in September.

I will probably at both of those, and Venus Berlin in October

[chadknowslaw]

I am going to be at less than one show a month this year. AOE in Amsterdam this April, Webmaster Access Toronto in May, Xbiz in July, Internext in August, Webmaster Access Amsterdam in September, Gay Phoenix Forum and maybe Venus Berlin in October, then nothing for the rest of the year.

This schedule is too much. I think one every 2 months is more than sufficient

[Jasun]

shows are a necessary evil when your'e trying to bulid up your program.

In the early days of Fratmen, John and I went with the intention of just attracting people's eyes.

It was a way of getting people to even think of us when deciding to promote pregrams. I used to show up to shows and hand out Full-length Fratmen movies like there was no tomorrow.

I'd be naked at every party dancing on the bar like any drunken, rowdy frat boy would do (to be fair, I do that on Tuesday Nights at the French Market).

I'd talk up our program and literally beg people to promote us.

Now that people know who we are and are talking about us, I can't let that momentum be taken by someone else. I'll show up, offer people help, find out what I can do, get advice and still have time to be a drunken, rowdy frat boy like God intended.

We're a small, independent company and we're there every time.

[mgillis]

Of course, Jasun brings up a strong point.

By not going, what are you missing? Is it possible that a competitor scooped a deal or a partnership that could have been yours if you'd been there, networking like a fiend and dancing naked on tables (with my Warren, usually... huh, Jasun! I love the watersports story myself, but more on that later).

This year, my overall travel decisions were based around concepts like that. This year, someone or someones from my company will be at most of the events. We may not sponsor or throw a party, but we'll be there.

I'd like to see the industry as a whole take a smarter approach to these events and get them spaced out. To Chad's point, the constant schedule of 2 or 3 shows a month is too much!

[padabum]

It would be nice to see some big shows in different areas of the world.
Europe, ect.

that is true. some good show in europe (amsterdam, prague or such) would most probably attract loads of webmasters.

as i stated in another thread. we havent attended any shows since more than five years, (and we still havent gone out of business:rip: :ninja: ) but we would definetly consider attending a good european event and maybe even sponsoring it

[Lee]

Here is a brief list of shows still remaining for '07

The Phoenix Forum - Phoenix, Mar 29 - 31, 2007
AOE Conference & Expo - Amsterdam, Apr 26 -30, 2007
JBM Does Cabo - Cabo San Lucas, Apr 26 - 28, 2007
Webmaster Access East - Toronto, May 16 - 19, 2007
Eurowebtainment - Mallorca, May TBA 07
Redneck Getaway - Fort Lauderdale, June 1 - 3, 2007
Cybernet Expoo - Tampa, June 7 - 10, 2007
Vancouver Adult Show- VancouverJune TBA, 2007
Xbiz Industry Conference - Las Vegas, July 11 - 13, 2007
Internext Expo - Hollywood Fl, Aug 3 - 5, 2007
Qwebec Expo - Montreal, Aug 24 - 26, 2007
Webmaster Access Europe - Amsterdam, Sept27-29,2007
Octoberfest Gathering 07 - Munich, Sept 30 -Oct 2, 2007
Venus - Berlin, Oct 18 - 21, 2007

Some months have 2 or 3 shows consecutively, how any could think there arent already enough shows is beyond belief.

There definately needs to be some thinning of the herd i think

Regards,

Lee