CCBill vs. Epoch (My Experiences)

[SebSloPro]

Hey Guys, Long time no see :china:

I've had some experiences that I would like to share with you today.

I have 30 sum sites that is an AVS System / Membership network to best explain it. I was first with CCBill, I had many problems with them that I'm sure many of you have experienced as well. Then I switched to Epoch.

CCBill made some "homophobic" comments to us creating somewhat of a disruption with us. We'd email CCBill our problems, they'd never respond or they would get rather rude with us, we'd call CCBill, etc.
CCBill always accused us of our server problems... we'd prove to CCBill it wasn't us.
CCBill would also decline probably about a good 45% of our "new members." Then I met up with a good friend Rainey who was with Pride Bucks. She left Pride Bucks and went to Epoch.
I was telling her of our horrible experiences. And she told us to try Epoch and that we would notice a lot of better "features and perks" that CCBill couldn't offer.

CCBill was always just rude. So we have completely dropping them.

For starting up with CCBill we grossed aprox. $100 in memberships within a 45 day period. Since we've left CCBill, our membership sales have gone up triple that.

I strongly suggest using Epoch as a primary payment processor. They are very nice, quick to respond, they NEVER get rude with anyone, they're ALWAYS open to feedback.

Also, IF you are using CCBill, you will notice that they have reserves and hold a percentage... Epoch doesn't.

Epoch accepts 9 payment types in 13 different currencies, more than any
other 3rd party biller, therefore allowing you to accept more customers.

Epoch offers EpochStats, a complete affiliate and cascading software system to clients using Epoch as their primary processor, free of charge. To purchase the software directly from MPA would cost upwards of $17,000.

Epoch takes no credit card reserves. Most processors keep 5-10% of your
income on a rolling reserve.

Epoch offers a robust suite of premium features that will help you form
strategic partnerships with other Epoch clients, upsell your own products and retain your members longer.

I could go on and on about just how great Epoch is, but you get the point. From a Webmasters stand point of needing a payment processor Epoch has been on the ball providing A+++ Service!

If you haven't heard of them, I would suggest looking into them. They are just great people and I believe they just strive to help out their clients. They have been great to us here at NoW @ One Entertainment, and I'm just certain they would be great to you also!!!!!

If you'd like more information, he's my rep's information. She's just a fantastic lady!

Her name is Rainey Stricklin
Email: Rainey@Epoch.com or Raingurl@Gmail.com
AIM: raingurl
ICQ: 209592911
Phone: 602-295-1628

Or if you'd like to know more from a webmasters stand point, I'm ALWAYS more than happy to share information!

XOXOXOXO to everyone!
JJ

[Lee]

Wow....

It almost reads like an advert for Epoch.

Did CCBill try splintering the gay webmaster community by launching a gay webmaster event at the same time as one Epoch was already putting on?

Did CCBill also avoid answering uestions publicly when the gay webmaster community asked these questions of them and in fact, are we still awaiting answers to several vital questions from CCBill to this very day?

Has CCBill also vanished from GWW completely other than a couple of their schills posting on their behalf in order to get additional clients in the gay market because they dont have the balls to do the right thing and be transparent with their business practices?

Did CCBill also steal away 'gay' employees from other companies because they felt like that was the only way they could attract new 'gay' business?

Im guessing the answer to all of those questions above is NO Epoch on the other hand.....

Regards,

Lee

[SebSloPro]

I'm not too sure what your talking about....

All I'm saying is that CCBill made some homophobic comments to us, they are not the most pleasant individuals to talk to, every time we've had a problem they have made it worse, they hold your reserves, and I was just explaining my experiences with both of them.

Don't be an ass. I didn't know of any of that. Nor was I trying to create any outrages. I was just stating why I chose Epoch over CCBill and the good things with Epoch.

[Lee]

All I'm saying is that CCBill made some hmophobic comments to us

Can you tell us what those comments were that CCBill made to you please?

Right now you have basically tols us 'i have a secret, but im not telling you what it is' which makes it look like your post is an ad for Epoch, because Epoch dont have the balls to talk to us directly after all the stuff they did to screw the gay webmaster community over a few months ago with their gay show, along with Cybersocket and AVN.

they are not the most pleasant individuals to talk to

Really? I dont think i have ever had a problem talking to anyone over at CCBill, they are always friendly and outgoing and are totally transparent in their dealings with me and pretty much everyone else i have seen asking questions of them in person, and on GWW. Epoch on the other hand, run away with their tail between their legs when the difficult questions start getting asked about their business practices.

every time we've had a problem they have made it worse

Again, this has certainly not been my personal experience with CCBill, typically i get problems (when they arise) solved within a few minutes of calling their client support line or asking one of their many reps on ICQ for assistance.

I was just stating why I chose Epoch over CCBill and the good things with Epoch.

Just as i was explaining the good things with CCBill and why myself and several other people will never do business with Epoch because of their dubious business practices in wanting additional gay business but when they get asked questions in a public forum that might be considered 'difficult' they run away and leave everyone wondering what their true intentions are.

Regards,

Lee

[Mansized]

Wow! You should work for Epoch.
You sold me big time!

[SebSloPro]

Look Guys! I'm getting bombarded with horribly negative emails from you guys.

Look, I'm not one that starts shit. Nor do I know and nor do I care about the battles of Epoch and CCBill.

All I'm saying is, I've had HORRIBLE problems with CCBill. I left CCBill, I went with EPOCH, and there was the perks of joining Epoch.

One thing I learned from this site was to take others pros and cons that they post along with their experiences and have taken them in and I've learned causing myself and my business to grow stronger.

So I was posting my experiences for newcomers and others to basicly learn from.

I'm getting swamped with e-mails from you guys who are totally trashing me about this posting. My intent was NEVER to hurt anyone, My Intent was never to make anyone leave CCBill or even leave your other processor and go to Epoch.

I dont know what happened at Cybersocket and AVN, I dont care. I wasn't there so I cant be the judge of things. All I can say is the experiences with CCBill were not the greatest and with being with Epoch, my experiences are much better.

[mansites-craig]

Hey Lee,
This isn't personal. First and foremost, you know me and you know I love the ccbill sales reps. I should, i hired them


What I read in the forum is that Rainey Rocks!!! Simple point, she does!!!
Ask the sales reps at ccbill and they will tell you she rocks. We all love Rainey.

Knowing the friendships between Sherri who does the shows at ccbill, and Rainey, I know these dramas will go away. People acting like they know what the whole story on the previous dramas are, are kidding themselves.

More importantly, if those companies have stopped talking about it, why is everyone else!!!

I salute any rep who goes out of their way to help, and limit drama, and Rainey definitely falls into that category

[djdez]

Did CCBill also steal away 'gay' employees from other companies because they felt like that was the only way they could attract new 'gay' business?

Lee, You've got this 100% incorrect and its been made clear several times that Rainey went to work for epoch because she wanted a change. You of all people should understand that affiliate work burns you out.

Just to be clear Rainey approached Patrick for an open position. Patrick then called Harlan, David and I. As most people, he was stunned that Rainey was looking to move on. We've always been great friends with Patrick and he told us that he informed Rainey that he could not hire her without our blessing. As the story goes, we gave our blessing and remain very good friends Patrick, Joel, Rainey et al.

I don't like speaking for other people, but I do know that it was Patrick that approached Joel for a job, when he decided to leave ccbill. It was not the other way around.

Most likely this is the first time that the above was phrased the way it was. Regardless, it was not for your concern. Noone on this board or any one that does not include the companies involved have any right to know anything in this regard. Nonetheless, I hope this clears up this issue once and for all.

Perhaps if you avoid using your accusatory speach, you might actually get responses. As it is, and as it was in the aforementioned...its the sound bites that matter for the drama queens. Not the facts. The fact is that towards the end of the thread you're referring to, a good number of people were starting to see that the picture that was being painted for us by ccbill may actually not be, ahem, forthcoming.

Personally, I've never had a problem with epoch. I have had several problems with ccbill. Generally, they have been rectified. However, the last issue that I had with them I consider closed, but it still leave a very bad taste in my mouth. When a client of theirs made libelous statements publicly in email to 3rd parties and on this very board that (paraphrasing here) ' I know you're using underage models because I know the guy in one of the photosets that I stole from you', there is absolutely no excuse. CCBill should have terminated that client which they refused to do. Not because of their libelous actions towards us, but that at best he was not being honest, admitted to stealing content or worse he basically said he would knowingly use underage content. On the other hand Verotel, terminated that client immediately after he 'REPLIED TO ALL' in the dmca letter i sent him, his host and processors. I didn't even have to ask Verotel to do it, they did within 15 minutes of that webmaster's email to me that they were cc'd on.

[Lee]

Craig,

Im in complete agreement with you that company reps should be publicly named when they do something above and beyond, so often we see reps getting bashed on the boards and very few times do we see them being thanked for the all the hard work and dedication they put in to their jobs.

However, this thread was biased towards Epoch from someone who obviously doesnt know the recent history, as im sure there are others on the GWW Community who dont know the history behind Epochs dubious business practices when it comes to putting their business interests first and foremost in the gay community, whilst professing wanting to unify the community, i just want to make sure anyone considering using Epoch as a biller has all the information they need to make an informed decision that not only affects their business, but the entire gay webmaster community, which in all reality, Epoch really doesnt seem to care about right now based on their silence in matters that affects each and every one of our businesses in a negative way.

Regards,

Lee

[mansites-craig]

Hey Lee,
No one can know the whole stories behind disagreements, and I am under the impression BOTH companies are not talking about past issues but are moving forward. I don't seem to see any posts from either company to the contrary.

I think they both want to do their business as well as they can.

If any of you want contact info on any ccbill or epoch rep and a good referral, call me I"ll be glad to give you their numbers.

What is most interesting, is throughout the dramas, it hasn't been about a single sales rep. It is about events, or techs, or rumors, but no rep on either side has been thought to have said or done anything wrong I trust they are all doing everything they can to help their webmasters, thus the loyalty that they all instill is deserved.

[JustBryce]

I have no comments on the whole gay show debacle as I've heard so many versions of what happened that its hard to know what to believe. I won't touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.

From a strictly academic perspective though, we push a lot of transactions through a whole lot of different affiliate programs. We used to run some paysites as well and we used both CCbill and Epoch. Several months ago we noticed that our paysite sales with ccbill were slagging off so we made Epoch the primary biller in our cascade. The conversions went up almost 15% immediately.

We then started looking deeper at our sales overall on traffic we send out to other programs and the conversions on those programs that use the CCBill affiliate program have without any doubt dropped off in recent months. The conversions on a day-by-day basis have dropped and become more eratic. Also, the number of rebills being approved have also declined. We have over 50 CCBill programs we promote through their affiliate system and the drop is across the board.

On the flip-side, there is no drop-off in either new signups or retention from programs that use their own merchant accounts or that are using Epoch as their only biller or as their primary. There are a few blips here and there that are an exception to the trend above, but in a macro view and based on our experience... Epoch is converting and pushing through more rebills with greater success and has been for over 2 months now.

From my experiences CCBill and Epoch both have great people working for them and both billers were extremely helpful recently when we sold our program. We even made a point to thank both of them in our press release announcing the sale.

As far as Rainy goes... I haven't worked with her since she left PrideBucks, but she was probably the best affiliate rep that I've ever worked with (no offense to anyone else out there) and I'm sure that she will serve Epoch very well.

anyway, my .02

[SebSloPro]

Guys, Look... I don't think I made it very clear last time.

MY INTENTION WAS NOT TO BASH ANYONE, MY INTENTION WAS NOT TO "STEAL" CCBILL'S CLIENTELLE. MY INTENTION WAS TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCES.
IF YOU THINK IM SUCH A HORRIBLE PERSON BY DOING THIS THAN THATS YOUR OPINION!

But I don't deserve these emails you guys are sending to me. Apparently you don't have the balls or should I say the nerves to post them on here.

Rainey at Epoch is very good to us here, she's always been by my side, thus she deserves the recognition as many have stated thereof.

Evidently, we've all had problems with CCBill, I'm sure everyone has their favorite processor.

For the record according to some of the emails I"ve been receiving... EPOCH did NOT pay me to post that. Nor was there any incentive for me to post this.

You guys need to grow up. You can hate me all you want, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

The experiences that I received with CCBill were not the best:
1) I'd email them, it'd be days before I'd get a response or even none at all.
2) I'd give them the homedir for the htaccess / htpasswd files and they would screw them up thus they'd need to fix them. I wouldn't in fear of screwing things up.
3) there were some comments made that I didn't see appropriate.
4) The biggest problems I had with them was that they wouldn't answer us and the screwups they made were always our faults in their eyes whether it be proven it wasn't our fault.
5) They never appeared to be pleasurable to work with.

My intention on the Epoch part was:
1) How quick they respond to attentitive matters
2) They're fast to get everything going
3) They offer a great affiliate program
4) Rainey is the shit!
5) They don't hold your money
6) The opposite of what I said above about CCBill.

I was NOT at any of the shows, and this is exactly I will not go... I don't like to get mixed up in all this drama.
I'm 25 years old, I own 30 sum membership sites OF MY OWN CONTENT and some affiliate program stuff, I own 40+ dvd sales sites, and I own my own studio which has produced 50+ dvds, AND I've been investigated by the FBI on my record keeping for my models last summer and passed with flying colors.

And we're preparing to launch VOD / Download 2 own sites /programs.

I have done ALL of this myself in just less than one year. Mainly because I keep to myself and stay out of the drama. I don't want to waste my money going to these shows because it seems after reading all of this stuff all the shows are is drama! I'm serious.

Maybe before starting some drama and talking shit about people you guys need to investigate it and find the truth out of the matter prior to jumping to conclusions and starting shit with other people!
I feel like I"m back in kindergarten again!

The purpose I see of these forums is for people to talk to one another, we're one large industry... learn from each other. You may not like everyone, but god damn people why can't you at least get along with people?
Stand back and look at the internet... It's like we're all one big team here! We need each other.

[D-Rock]

We Love Epoch! Python was of thier first clients, and we continue to keep our business relationship strong!

Epoch kicks ass!

[Lee]

It's like we're all one big team here! We need each other.

I agree, which is why i question the business practices of Epoch, Cybersocket and AVN in deliberately scheduling their event against the CCBill Gay Phoenix Forum in order to get it cancelled, if they want to unite the gay webmaster community as they profess, deliberately going out of their way to get one of the best webmaster shows in the industry cancelled, especially the ONLY gay webmaster event, isnt the way to go about it.

I understand that Epoch wants more 'gay' business but screwing every gay webmaster over by getting the Gay Pheonix Forum cancelled isnt the way to go about it, because as they are finding out, it left a really bad taste in everyones mouth who was considering going with Epoch for their billing needs.

Which is why i guess they asked you to post this thread

Regards,

Lee

[basschick]

i've never heard of a rep from ccbill making a racist or homopobic comment, so since it's not SOP over there, did you try reporting the employee who did it? a bad employee can pop up anywhere from time to time, and it's only with the help of clients that they can be weeded out.

both epoch and ccbill have some great features but i have found that more employees tend to sign up while using ccbill - in part because you can combine all your ccbill accounts (a feature epoch doesn't offer at this time), in part because ccbill has long allowed you to create your own prices on the fly and partly because ccbill focused on smaller programs while epoch was focusing on the bigger programs.

btw, when last i noticed, admittedly a while back, epoch held reserves. did they stop?