Well Doesnt Look Like Ill Be Offering Cascading Billing Anytime Soon

[Lee]

Just got this back from Rand at Epoch...

I'm sorry. After some consideration, Epoch is not interested in working with your program at this time.

A shame i couldnt do the same thing and refuse to let any of the Epoch reps post on GWW without it being misconstrued as 'drama'.

They dont want to process for my site yet they will happily post about their services on GWW, kinda seems two-faced to me but whatever helps them get new clients i guess.

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

Not to start or contribute to more drama, but this is really surprising.

I mean, the way I look at it, Lee, your talking to Epoch about adding cascading billing certainly seemed like an olive branch from you intended to move past all of the nastiness.

I can understand why Epoch might feel slighted about all of the bad press they got over the GayVN/Gay Phoenix Forum debacle, but at a certain point, business is business, and I think people should take the opportunity to mend fences whenever possible.

Maybe there are other factors that aren't being discussed here, but on the face of it, I'm really surprised. I guess Epoch STILL doesn't have somebody with PR smarts on staff.

However... I'm sure Verotel will be more than happy to have your business, and CCBill's cascading option is in beta now, so perhaps not that big a loss for you.

[Lee]

Maybe there are other factors that aren't being discussed here, but on the face of it, I'm really surprised. I guess Epoch STILL doesn't have somebody with PR smarts on staff.

Im not really sure what other factors could come in to play, i hadnt even sent them a link to one of the new sites or submitted any application at the time of Rand telling me this, if i had done that and something was 'odd' looking in the application i could understand it, right now it just looks like petty childishness.

No biggie though, it just means that CCBill, yet again, stands out in a class of their own

It does make you wonder how many clients currently processing with Epoch are going to be suppressed from airing their views about Epoch on the boards through fear of getting their accounts closed though, or how many non Epoch clients will discuss them on open forums through fear of being refused processing through them if what is said isnt 'positive' towards Epoch :eek:

Regards,

Lee

[abostonboy]

It's funny, Morgan is spamming the hell out of Epoch on the boards. You have to read a little between the lines to see it. But every thread he starts it seems like Rand and a few others are so damn quick to jump in and claim the virtues of cascading billing.

Jesus. Give me a break. Don't these people know that us little gay webmasters are better word of mouth than circus clowns.

Recent hires at Epoch have left me a little scared as well. It's all well and good that you hire from one processor to another, but when you start hiring those that worked at affiliate programs with "connections" to others in the industry always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

One of my main rules is I will not host with any host that has a paysite. Too much temptation... If you know what I mean.

Of course these are just my thoughts.

Lloyd

[Lee]

It's funny, Morgan is spamming the hell out of Epoch on the boards. You have to read a little between the lines to see it. But every thread he starts it seems like Rand and a few others are so damn quick to jump in and claim the virtues of cascading billing.

Cascading billing is great, as long as you conform to the standards of the processors offering it and dont question their heavy-handed business practices.

Be carefull what you say Lloyd, you might not be allowed to process with them either for stating your opinion on their business practices!!!

Regards,

Lee

[abostonboy]

I know cascading billing is great.

Yeah, I thought of that before I posted. Not too worried. To be quite honest I don't think I would want to process with them anyways. As I said I still have a bad taste in my mouth.

Lloyd

[jIgG]

how very immature if Epoch let whatever personal feelings they have towards Lee in the way. I'm surprised to see this happen. From a big company nonetheless

And it would be even more immature if it's because of the Phoenix Forum fiasco. It's like a child that did something bad and now throws a hissy fit over being punished! Come on! You schedule your forum around the same time, dubious as to why you do it in the first place, cause the already established and well-liked event to close and everyone gangs up on you for what looks like a very fishy behavior. Normal action-reaction ...

the question is - if you dont want Condom Cash then why come here, surely letting lee cascade with you is just as bad as being on his board - unless...

[IdolKnights]

This would be like a small town holding a meeting to ban the new development of a Wal-Mart super center and Wal-Mart telling them, once they open, you cannot shop here.

[gaystoryman]

This would be like a small town holding a meeting to ban the new development of a Wal-Mart super center and Wal-Mart telling them, once they open, you cannot shop here.

Now that gave me a chuckle... perfect analogy

[gaybucks_chip]

In the interest of being fair to Epoch, I do think some lessons were learned about the Phoenix Forum/GayVN summit fiasco.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but Epoch quietly gave in on the exclusivity issue, and CCBill is now among the cosponsors for the GayVN summit.

I also believe that Rand indicated somewhere that Epoch had taken a significant step back from their involvement with the Summit because, if I remember correctly, "there were disagreements on the direction in which it was going." They are still sponsoring, but I think perhaps they did realize that the advice they had received (or bought) was not as good as they thought it was and figured moving into the background was sensible.

More than anything I just wish everyone could get along. Perhaps Rand or someone at Epoch can contact Lee and explain why Epoch isn't interested in his business.

I do think, if Lee gets information and chooses to share it, this would be useful to other webmasters in making decisions about which processor to use. It is pretty scary to think that one of the only two credible US-based processors is basing decisions about processing that should be based on relative risk and other business factors on the strength of personal biases rather than good business.

I really hope that isn't the case, and I really desperately hope that Epoch will soon hire somebody that really understands the value of PR and how silence, bad decisions, and pettiness can do serious damage to a company's reputation in a community that is already fractured, dramatic, and gossip-laden as the gay adult webmaster community is.

[Lee]

It is pretty scary to think that one of the only two credible US-based processors is basing decisions about processing that should be based on relative risk and other business factors on the strength of personal biases rather than good business.

I really hope that isn't the case, and I really desperately hope that Epoch will soon hire somebody that really understands the value of PR and how silence, bad decisions, and pettiness can do serious damage to a company's reputation in a community that is already fractured, dramatic, and gossip-laden as the gay adult webmaster community is.

I really do think this is the case afterall, Epoch had nothing else to base their choice on.

I never even submitted a processing application to them because before I could, i was told they werent interested in working with me.

One can only assume because I publicly announced that the direction they were headed with the GayVN summit was wrong, a direction which even they themselves later agreed with and reversed course :eek:

So in effect, even though they realized a lot of us were right and they kind of did listen by reversing course, those of us who were vocal whilst this was all going on had better not want to process any sales through Epoch because they wont be interested in working with any of us it seems.

Regards,

Lee

[Lee]

I would also be interested to know if them not wanting to work with me includes on affiliate accounts also?

If so, please let me know what you would like me to tell the program owners the reason for us no longer sending them any traffic should be as i request that they close our accounts down.

This could have a very bad knock-on effect for a lot of programs using Epoch as a processor in sales volume.

Regards,

Lee

[abostonboy]

They are still sponsoring, but I think perhaps they did realize that the advice they had received (or bought) was not as good as they thought it was and figured moving into the background was sensible.

I just hope they didn't pay too much for that advice. Lots of webmasters could have helped them for free.

Word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool. Unfortunately this time word of mouth is doing nothing but hurt them.

Lloyd

[IdolKnights]

I like the part where Lee asks Rand a question at 08-15-2007, 04:56 PM and Rand gave a Reply at 08-15-2007, 05:18 PM (That's 22 minutes) in the initial thread.

This thread was posted at 08-15-2007 09:37 PM and here, 14 hours later, nothing.

Speaks Volumes and I would only fear, as a client, how their service matches up.

[Lee]

I like the part where Lee asks Rand a question at 08-15-2007, 04:56 PM and Rand gave a Reply at 08-15-2007, 05:18 PM (That's 22 minutes) in the initial thread.

This thread was posted at 08-15-2007 09:37 PM and here, 14 hours later, nothing.

Speaks Volumes and I would only fear, as a client, how their service matches up.

Yet Rand has been viewing this thread for the last 30 minutes and still hasnt replied, i guess that, yet again, silence is going to be the tool they use so that everyone forgets about this whole incident, it worked well for them before after all :thumbsup:

Either that or he's a$king Morgan what he should say in his reply LOL

Regards,

Lee