Woo Hoo....

[Lee]

We're back

Okay, here's the deal, there are so many questions, rumors and lies floating around about what happened with GWW and the club we owned right nnow i figured the simplest thing to do would be to start a thread where you can ask all of your questions in one place and get an answer directly from the source.

To give you a quick synopsis of what happened though, when we purchased the club from its previous owners, we were lead to beleive we were buying a gay nightclub, that both Daytona city, its development board and the clubs landlords were fine with, along with being told the current owners were behind on payments by about 2 months, we were fine with that, and were able to cut a great deal on purchasing the business in its entirity.

After having gone through several lawsuits, with the clubs previous owners, the building landlord and several 'ex' members of staff, we realized there were issues with us being a 'gay' club.

As it transpired, the 'club' itself was never supposed to be a nightclub, it was supposed to be a restaurant and in order to get liquor licenses, cabaret licenses and the gorgeous building we were in, the previous owners lied to everyone about the true purpose of the business.

Skip forward a few more weeks, a couple of hundred thousand dollars and going through the process of bankrupting a rather successfull business, much to the dismay of our clientele, and you folks will understand why we were kind of pre-occupied with things other than making sure hosting bills were paid on time LOL

I do however beleive that as of right now, we're back on track and there should be no other suprise issues popping up with the GWW Community, Condom Cash or any of the other GA Media Corp. or Red Bag Productions web properties

So, fire away with your questions im sure you have many...

Its good to be back though after a month of down-time

Regards,

Lee

[basschick]

i'm really sorry to hear what you guys have gone through, but i'm glad to see you're back

[Lee]

i'm really sorry to hear what you guys have gone through, but i'm glad to see you're back

Thanks Patti

Its all good, we put the last 4 months down to a learning experience, we're currently working on making sure we are good with the state of Florida to ensure we can open another club in the near future, unfortunately, we blew through a lot of money we really shouldnt have had to thanks to the previous owners of the club

That being said, that which doesnt kill us only makes us stronger and we're in a much better position right now to open somewhere that we own from the get-go

Now i just have to figure out why Joker.com is declining my card even though i know there are funds available so i can get the AdServer back up and running LOL

Regards,

Lee

[CamCruise]

Hi Lee.
I am sorry to hear about all your trials. And glad that you made it though.

You were greatly missed. I am glad that GWW is back and you both well and that you are back on the boards.

[Bec]

Just really glad you both are ok ... you can't go scarin' me like that again! I'm so sorry about how they messed you over with the club ... and I do hope you're able to setup something else in the future that doesn't have any hidden agenda waiting to trip you up.

Hugs

[Lee]

Thanks Bec

We're already looking at buildings to open a new place sometime in the near future

The best thing about this whole experience is how enlightening it was to see who our true friends were in the industry, of all the people we have helped over the years there were maybe 5 or 6 who actually went out of their way to make sure we actually were alive, there were a lot more that started acting like sharks that smelt blood though, it was a real eye opener thats for sure.

Guess you never really know who you have as friends when it comes to the online business until they show their true colors and start calling you out on the various boards at the first chance they get

So thanks to Patti, Bec, Squirt, Chip, HDK Bill and the BadPuppy crew

Regards,

Lee

[deanb]

Glad to see you back Lee. I am also glad to see this board back, this board is probably one of the most useful sources of information for a gay webmaster that one could ask for. I for one have learned a ton from this place and the 'search' feature.

[Squirt]

The international man of mystery returns



Welcome back Lee :groovy:

[MiamiB]

Wow...that sucks! But as you say...live and learn! I am sure with the experience that you went threw you will be even more successful with the next venture!

Best of luck and glad THIS board is back!

[HunkyLuke]

good to see you guys back and i do hope that all works out from here on.

[nickbaer]

Thanks Bec
... of all the people we have helped over the years there were maybe 5 or 6 who actually went out of their way to make sure we actually were alive,

Since I'm younger than HDKBill, I'm not sure how else to say HI to you other than here.

[nickbaer]

When you go to buy even the littlest thing, there's this thing called due diligence.

Unfortunately, even though it says in the contract something about "willing seller and willing buyer," often the buyer has a REAL reason to get out, and the buyer has that innate "hunt and gather" hormone coursing through their veins, and the two cause the both to go into things very blind.

It's pretty easy to say that one should never assume that a contract, license, permit, insurance policy, warranty, utility account, employee, rental agreement, land use, paint on the siding, customers, or even friends, will transfer from the buyer to the seller.

Add to that, alcoholism and drug abuse (illicit and prescription), and a lot of buyers are simply better off just looking for a way to start their own project from scratch.

[gaybucks_chip]

Nick,

For most people, the idea of telling someone who has just been through a very nasty set of experiences that they did things wrong, or making sarcastic, condescending remarks would be so completely over the line that even the most inconsiderate clod will generally realize it's not a very thoughtful thing to do.

Lee and Gary have been around. Gary does real estate and has for a number of years. Certainly they knew about due diligence.

I've bought and sold and consulted on enough businesses to know that sometimes even the best due diligence doesn't uncover stuff if people work hard enough to cover it up, particularly in smaller towns where sometimes people can collude to hide information. Hindsight is always 20/20.

But then again, judging from the posts I've seen, courtesy and humility has never been one of your strong traits.

[nickbaer]

Dear gaybucks_chip -

NO THANK YOU for yet another of your personal attacks against me, in this COMMUNITY forum.

1) My comments were not personally addressed TO "Lee". My remarks no more "sarcastic, condescending" than any advice or analysis given by any attorney, classroom educator, online blogger, or even journalist on the subject of business law. Please don't continue your incessant personal attacks personally against "me", because YOU had the opportunity to hear voices in your head say "sarcastic, condescending". Such is the example of elementary bias through which any reader or viewer of online content interprets anything read or said, that we webmasters deal with daily in our pursuit or online communication.

2) If I had addressed "Lee" in my points, I would have QUOTED his remarks, a common protocol in forums such as this (that I have been a part of since 1981 on CompuServe) when addressing specific statements.

Such as: "we were lead to beleive we were buying a gay nightclub, that both Daytona city, its development board and the clubs landlords were fine with".

For example, to that QUOTE my question/response to would be: "Why didn't you get your permits from the applicable governing unit, to cover each and every permit the seller had, BEFORE paying any sum amount of money to the seller larger than you were willing to loose, and put it in escrow"...

In other words, "Execution of the Contract CONTINGeNT on issuance of specific licenses and permits, listed specifically by name."

It is an honest and serious practical question. Given that this forum is about sharing and solving questions. How would my question be "sarcastic, condescending"?

We certainly in this forum discuss technical issues of "how to". I've certainly never read the concepts of "sarcastic, condescending" into anyone else here in discussing technical issues about their computers, hosts, servers, consultants, page designs, processors, customer base, rebills, declines, competition, et.al.

It is not necessary in an academic or theoretical discussion of principles and concepts to always assign a personal hero or victim to circumstances. I certainly wouldn't apply either "to" Lee, because i didn't read in his telling of his story any particular plea on his part to be either hero or victim. I don't see why you are doing that to him in his stead?

However, I certainly have higher expectations of gaybucks_chip in this COMMUNITY forum to not use every word and opportunity I freely contribute, to grandstand and joust for power from any word and opportunity said, not said, construed or misconstrued just for the sake of the opportunity to grandstand.

In my reading your posts on multitudinous topics, courtesy and humility has never been one of your strong traits EITHER. The Emperor Has No Clothes, or better put, we live in a free society here, why the jockeying for power? The title says "gaywidewebmasters," we're all part of that.

It is of no value that you agree or disagree with anything that I contribute to these COMMUNITY forums, because we as adult webmasters do operate in the area of First Amendment free speech, where the only criteria for such participation is a modicum of truth.

I have great business partners, some of whom participate here, and most who do not. They know me for my business with them, and enjoy the revenue that I earn for them, and gaybucks_chip does me a tortuous disservice to dissuade public opinion against "me"; rather than for or against issues I believe in, vs issues gaybucks_chip believes in.

I also have had BAD business experiences with some business partners, some of whom participate here, and some of whom have victimized other members here. I also had one very bad personal public experience with a member here, whose real life ego doesn't necessarily match her online persona.

It is amazing how many other members of this forum - and forums that I am not a member of - can say "this person owes me money" or "that person won't return my e-mails," but I CAN'T say "Hi, how are you?".

Why IS that, gaybucks_chip? Why is that?

[gaybucks_chip]

A lot of things get lost over electronic communication, so I suppose it's possible that you simply aren't aware that your commentary does sometimes come off as condescending and rude (and this isn't my opinion, but the opinion of quite a few people, actually...). I don't mean that as an insult or personal attack, but just as an observation. Sometimes how we come across electronically and how we actually feel are completely different.

I freely admit that my comments can sometimes be snarky, and (not speaking about you or your posts in this case), if a commenter says something that I consider to be completely stupid or inane, or, for example, a poster constantly solicits advice but then tells those who offer it that they're wrong (again, not talking about you), then I *will* call them on it. But for whatever reason, my posts seem to be perceived differently (at least by those from whom I've had feedback) than yours, and I don't think the majority of people share your viewpoint.

I also know of both the "personal public experience" (sic) with the female person you're speaking of, as well as the background surrounding it. I also know said person quite well, having worked with her professionally in several capacities, and feel qualified to say that, while you're certainly entitled to your perceptions and opinions, the overwhelming majority of people in the industry who have had the opportunity to talk to or work with this person simply don't share your viewpoint; in fact, she is generally considered one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people who is incredibly generous with her time and information, and many webmasters have been able to grow their businesses significantly in large part due to her knowledge and assistance.

I also take issue with the notion that there's no value in stating disagreement on a public forum; more than once, I've changed my own opinion on something after reading contrasting viewpoints from others, and I think that all of us can benefit from spirited debate, as long as it's respectful.

As I've said before, I'm sorry that you feel that my comments in response to your posts are "attacks", since they are not intended that way, nor are they perceived that way by any of those from whom I've received feedback.

All I'm suggesting is that we use the communities such as GWW and Gaydemon.biz as an opportunity to share and learn from one another, rather than an opportunity to tell others they are wrong, or why we know better, or how much better our way is than someone else's. Each of us has things to contribute, and if we do so with an open mind and with the intent of helping each other, then we all benefit.