Legal Hosting

[gottsimon]

Hi @ all
my name is simon and i'm an newbie, so please don't blame me for my question. :cowboy:
i wanna start a gay adult site. the problem is, that the german law is shit, so i wanna use an .com domain. is there any way, how to register a domain anonymously and safe? offshore, mailbox, whois privacy?
...how for exsaple can "cam4.com" exist, without caring for any law?
thanks for your anwsers
simon

[basschick]

even if you host "anonymously", you're still breaking the law and risking jail time. i can't imagine why you feel that working with porn is worth the risk, but then i know a couple chinese webmasters and they are risking life in prison or the death penalty.

in all seriousness, why not just create adult sites that work with the german government AVS?

[MiamiB]

Are you saying that porn is illegal in Germany? Just wondering since I have no idea about that and it sounds interesting. I do recall going to Berlin and there were sex shops all over and I always thought that Germany was pretty liberal as far as sex went?

[basschick]

as i understand it, porn sites are legal in germany, but must use the german government-approved avs before any explicit material or any pics of models showing - for example - a huge bulge in their underwear. unlike other avs's, each german person who wants to access german porn via their avs goes in in person, i believe to the post office, to show that they're the person with the i.d. and the same person who wants the AVS membership.

[MiamiB]

So it is legal...but you need to access sites via a government avs? How do they know what you are looking at in the privacy of your own home? Is the internet censored in Germany?

[Matt 26z]

One option may be to put non-explicit materials on your site and link to free hosted galleries and whatnot. Would that keep you within German law?

[chadknowslaw]

I believe you would need to form a non-German company and operate your business outside of Germany.

[gottsimon]

as i understand it, porn sites are legal in germany, but must use the german government-approved avs before any explicit material or any pics of models showing - for example - a huge bulge in their underwear. unlike other avs's, each german person who wants to access german porn via their avs goes in in person, i believe to the post office, to show that they're the person with the i.d. and the same person who wants the AVS membership.

Thats exactly the problem, and the internet is not censord. so for users its much easyer to acess non german sites.

I believe you would need to form a non-German company and operate your business outside of Germany.

i believe so too. has anyone here any experiences? were for example should i found that company? panama, seychelles, whatever?


thanks for your anwsers by the way. and sorry for my english
bye simon

[chadknowslaw]

If you decide to form a company outside of Germany, do not make your decision based upon ill-advised notions of tax haven jurisdictions. Tax haven jurisdictions can be beneficial for trusts or investors that have passive income (money from stock dividends or bond interest) but generally are counter-productive for a small business that actually sells a product.

A natural progression for a new online adult business is to go from free sites and traffic generation to a pay site or other model that has billing needs. If you want to begin billing, you will want a company either in the Visa EU region or Visa US region. There are burdens and benefits to both Visa regions, but you will need a company presence in one of those regions to use those billing solutions, so a company on some Caribbean tax shelter island will be of no use.

You need to examine your business plan, tax issues (do not neglect VAT issues!) and regulatory compliance. Do not believe someone that tells you server location dictates jurisdiction! Where your company is formed and where your customers access your service is much more important than the location of your primary servers.

[nickbaer]

That is good news. I like being compliant.

My company will always be in the US, no matter where I travel, because I have a Loss Carry Forward from the Dot.Com days, and won't be legally obligated to pay US Income Tax until I'm much older than McCain.

[basschick]

i'd strongly suggest finding an attorney in germany with experience in adult. maybe if devlish shows up, he can help you find one.

[chadknowslaw]

koetz@koetzlaw.de

That is the email for Daniel Koetz. He is a German lawyer and a member of the First Amendment Lawyers Association.

[basschick]

damn, chad - you totally rock!

koetz@koetzlaw.de

That is the email for Daniel Koetz. He is a German lawyer and a member of the First Amendment Lawyers Association.

[attis]

Basschick is completely right about the situation in Germany. Nothing to add here.

Simon, the problem with going overseas, or even moving to the Netherlands, is that you are still a German (if you are). And if you break German laws, especially those related to anything sexual, you still could be held liable under German laws, even if you were completely legal in the country where you didn't comply to German laws.

So for example, if someone knows or finds out that you are the owner of a foreign operated website which doesn't comply to the German laws and reports you to the authorities, you could be in trouble. I don't know if this is a realistic scenario, but if you want to take chances give it a try.

The problem is that the German government listens very much to all the lobbyists which tell them that the internet can be governed by German laws. Their strongest weapon is protection of the youth, which is actually a good thing (but only in sexual context, nazi shit is pretty okay if you want to throw it at young people). However, for all the lobbying organizations it's more about getting their hands on government money instead of doing some real work to help and protect young people.

[chadknowslaw]

I respectfully disagree with Attis' assessment.

If a German person owns a company in another country that complies with the laws of that country and does not export those goods/services illegally back into Germany, there are no laws broken, even if the good or service would be illegal if produced in Germany.

Think of Henry Ford owning Ford of Europe, producing diesel automobiles for sale in Europe that cannot legally be sold in the United States and Henry does not sneak any across the border.


When the product is being distributed through Internet channels you will need to take extra care in structuring the business so that the company is not violating German laws.


I repeat and STRESS that Server Location does not equal Company Location!