Reducing Your Business Costs By Going The Custom Route?

[Lee]

When it comes to things like programs we all need to use on our websites, has anyone ever thought about getting custom solutions created?

For example, right now we have a custom CMS that we are using on all of our existing and will be rolling out on all of our future site launches and i have to say, the costs saved on this one script alone are simply amazing.

It cost $2000 in total to create and it has the ability to be used on an unlimited amount of sites, hold an unlimited amount of content and can be added to with an unlimited amount of features in the future if we need them.

The next thing i think we're going to be working on is a basic system similar to StrongBox to use on our sites which should also save thousands of dollars over the lifespan of our business.

What types of programming have you folks invested in for your business when it comes to going 'custom' and how much would you estimate getting an exclusive script has saved you to date?

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

I think you'll have a hard time matching the technology behind Strongbox... I've talked extensively to Ray about how it does what it does, as well as ongoing enhancements he's working on, and I seriously doubt you'll find anyone who really understands the underlying issues related to security as well as he does... or at least, not someone willing to code something on the cheap

And besides, at $150 per install, Strongbox is hardly a big expense given the value it delivers.

But... as far as things like CMS, I completely agree that for most people, going the custom route will definitely save money and give you better flexibililty (if designed well) than the commercial products out there. We spent a couple grand on our CMS and it's been solid and serviceable for several years now. We are working on a major facelift to it, but it will still do what we need, better and cheaper than a commercial product.

We've also done some custom data collection forms with a sortable/searchable backend, and I haven't seen any other product that offers the flexibility we've built in yet... so sometimes it's not just a monetary savings, but getting a better product, or one more precisely focused on your needs, that's most important.

[HunkyLuke]

in my experience, custom is always more expensive than shelf bought, for the simple reason that it takes about the same amount of programming for building either....and selling it as shelf bought spreads that cost and profit out over a large number of consumers.

And don't forget, custom may be a good value when you start but a year later when new security holes are found or new functionality is needed, most shelf bought software includes free updates whereas custom ones don't!

[LavenderLounge]

I'm having my site rebuilt with Joomla, which is open source. I've only had to buy a couple plugins, and they've all been no more than $50 each. All you pay for is labor.

[raymor]

Custom work, I think, is often appropriate if you can't buy exactly
what you need. For example, you may want a CMS different from
what you can buy or get for free. In that case, it may make sense
to build what you want. Very often, you can save time (which is money)
by starting with a free open source system and adding on to it. The
point here here is that you build it because you can't buy it, not to
save money. For example:

have to say, the costs saved on this one script alone are simply amazing.
...
It cost $2000 in total to create and it has the ability to be used on an unlimited amount of sites, hold an unlimited amount of content and can be added to with an unlimited amount of features in the future if we need them.

You could buy a nice, mature CMS for $800, instead you spent $2,000
building one that still suffers from it's early version growing pains. So it cost
you $1200 more to get a buggier system. As you notice the kinds of problems
which commercial and open source CMS systems have already solved, you'll
probably spend another $1,000 on fixes and changes. I'm not sure how that "saves" a lot of money. In fact it costs you $2,200 more. Your custom CMS
may be just what you want, so it may be good to spend the extra $2,200
in this case, but only because the CMS you buy for $800 wasn't what you
were looking for.

The next thing i think we're going to be working on is a basic system similar to StrongBox to use on our sites which should also save thousands of dollars over the lifespan of our business.

Strongbox development has cost around $160,000 so far. That's OK, because
it's installed on tens of thousands of web sites. Each webmaster, by buying
Strongbox, contributes a tiny portion of the development cost. Even assuming
you violated our patents and generally ripped off our unique ideas, you might
be able to build something which works about half as well for $8,000. Or you
could just buy it for $150. Build it for $8000, or buy it $150. Which saves tons
of money? The software you can buy has been well tested
on huge sites like Girls Gone Wild. Your software you'd spend
$8000 on would be totally untested and may have huge security holes.
$1550 for something known to be very good, or $8000 for something
that will have problems. That's not a hard decision.


This question of when to build and when to buy is of course central to IT
management, so it's one which gets discussed a LOT in technical circles.
Over the years, some pretty well accepted guidelines have been developed,
including some popular phrasing and ways of presenting the ideas:

You may have to build it if no one sells what you need.
You may NOT need to build it if you can modify an existing system to
do what you need.

Don't write you own security, unless you're a security company, because
hackers are smarter than you are.

If it's the core of your business, and doing it better will put you way ahead
of the competition, you might should build it. (Example - Google would build
their own search software).
If it's not a core business function, just buy something that is known to
work well. (Google wouldn't write their own payroll system.)

Don't write you own security because your "looks pretty good"
security WILL get hacked.

If you personally have tons of time but no money, build it personally.
If you have the money and want it done soon, buy it.

Don't write you own security!


Webmasters here are in the business of presenting content, so a CMS
may be a core business function, and having a better CMS may be a
real competitive advantage. That's another reason that a custom CMS
may make sense, besides that there may be no CMS for sale which meets
your needs. On the other hand, webmasters here wouldn't want to spend
tens of thousands having a custom email client written - Outlook, Balsa,
Eudora, etc. do the job well. It's much better to share that development
cost with other businesses when possible.

By the way, the repeated emphasis on "don't do your own security" thing
isn't something I added - the repetition regarding security is common when
IT professionals talk about which software should be written versus purchased.

One wonderful example of why is I notice that you guys haven't updated this
board to take care of the well known security holes, so I can log
in as Lee if I want to. (I demonstrated this on Netpond, logging in as Meat).
That's OK - you're not in the security business and you don't
have any security people working for you. But remember that. If your
business is such that you can't even USE the security fixes that other
people give you, you sure as hell have no business DESIGNING security
systems.

[raymor]

Another rule of thumb I use which would apply to companies like Chilihost
who may already have programmers on staff:

If it's stupid simple, build it yourself because you can build it faster than
you can Google it.
If it takes more than 15 minutes to write - get it from CPAN if you can and get
quality code in less time than it takes to write.


I had to edit this post because I first typed "who already have programmers
on stuff" - I've seen a lot of code which looked like it was written by
programmers on stuff.

[gaybucks_chip]

Ray,

Just curious... you mention a good CMS for $800. Do you have any that you particularly like? We're considering an off-the-shelf CMS for a couple of smaller projects we're doing and i'm always interested in what people use and like.

[AcidMaX]

Here is another though to throw into the mix, and I am not trying to sell anything.

When you use an off the shelf application, your site typically looks like an off the shelf site. There is nothing unique that sets you apart from the rest of the world. If your budget can sustain a custom development I think doing that is best as long as it's not re-inventing the wheel. In this business I don't think I have seen a single off the shelf CMS actually fit the persons needs 100%. When it comes to processing images, 2257 documentation etc etc., most of the time the off the shelf products just don't fit our needs.

IMHO, if you are going for a flagship site, something to be above and beyond the others, custom is a better way to go. If you are wanting to build 1,000 cookie cutter sites then maybe the off the shelf is better.

[raymor]

Ray,

Just curious... you mention a good CMS for $800. Do you have any that you particularly like? We're considering an off-the-shelf CMS for a couple of smaller projects we're doing and i'm always interested in what people use and like.

Our take on CMS is that this is often a good place to combine using proven
systems with some customization. On the one hand, CMS may be a core
business function, since webmasters are in the business of presenting
content in a way that users like, so some custom work may make sense.
On the other hand, each webmaster's CMS is probably very similar, so it
makes sense to share development costs by using something off the shelf.
To get the best of both worlds, we'd use off the shelf PARTS with
some fairly simple custom work to glue them together in the best way for
each site. I'll list a few options, though.


Personally, I like simple tools which do one thing and do it well,
so I'd start with Coppermine, which is a feature rich photo and
video gallery script. It generates nice galleries but doesn't try to
completely take over your whole site, which would make it difficult
to do other things outside of Coppermine. Coppermine
is also open source, meaning that you are allowed
to make changes to it or hire someone to make changes
and there are many "mods" already freely available
for you to download. As an added bonus, the price
tag is $0. That still leaves your entire $800 budget
for complimentary software, integration, and enhancements.

You may also want to look at SiteDepth. A lot
of people like SiteDepth and the people behind it
seem to be good people. SiteDepth is more of an
all encompassing script that runs your whole
members' area. The it's not my personal style, other
people like a fully integrated system like SiteDepth.
The way SiteDepth was originally written it's wasn't
easily compatible with Strongbox but they made the
necessary changes to make their customers happy.
To me it's a good sign when a company is willing to
put in some effort for compatibility in order to please
their customer. If you talk to SiteDepth, please let them
know we sent you. We don't get a commission or
anything, but we like them to know we think well
of them and send them webmasters. The three site
version is $600 and the unlimited site version is $900,
so that's close to the $800 figure mentioned.

We have a very basic CMS system based around Wordpress
that we can set up for you. It was designed by three
very experienced webmasters who wanted something which
would work well. The interesting thing about this system is
it's ability to generate SE traffic. The outside tour area of the
site can be a mirror of the inside, which works well for the SEs
if you include some text with each set. (Of course the outside
links to the actual videos and the full size pics take you to the
join page). It doesn't have a highly polished admin interface
and all. It's more of a quick rough system that does the job well.

We have another system we inherited called ConMan
or a-conman. The person who named it thought it
was cute to shorten "Content Manager" down to "ConMan".
Apparently the word "ConMan" didn't inspire people
to whip out their Visa cards, though, so the developers
gave the system to us under the GPL. We should rename it.
It's a full featured system. It's open source, so the software
is free. We or your favorite PHP script person can set it up for
a small fee, so you get a full featured system at a low price. Screenshots:
http://bettercgi.com/a-conman/screenshots/

The disadvantage to a-conman one is that it's not real
polished at this time. Since the software is free and open source,
you could hire to make any improvements you wanted or fix any
lingering bugs and still pay less than you'd pay for the premium
systems. That would give you a full featured, comprehensive system
done just how you want it since you'd be starting with an off the
shelf system which already works, but you could then make it
work they way YOU want it to using some of that budget.

Lastly, some of our webmasters like Carma, from
the same company who makes NATS. I honestly am not
all too familiar with the Carma software, but it's
somewhat popular with some experienced webmasters.
Also NATS is high quality software, so I'd expect
that they made Carma a high quality product as well.
This system is the comprehensive type which takes
care of / takes over your whole members' area.
Again some people like a single system that takes
care of everything. I see this is taking over
everything and prefer smaller units. This full featured
system with a pretty interface isn't cheap, so it
BETTER be good. In the past I said some bad things
about this company because of the actions of one
of their former employees in regards some copyright
issues, but that's been resolved. So if you talk to them
please let them know I sent you. I just like them to know
that I've put our differences aside and now recommend
their products on their merits.

[basschick]

it's very easy with most off the shelf cms's to customize your site so it looks like no other. i've done this using aWiz and MAS, and is true of any cms that uses tags or customizable templates.

in fact, i've never seen a cms that forced your site to look like any particular thing. it's a question of understanding how to work with their templates.

Here is another though to throw into the mix, and I am not trying to sell anything.

When you use an off the shelf application, your site typically looks like an off the shelf site. There is nothing unique that sets you apart from the rest of the world. If your budget can sustain a custom development I think doing that is best as long as it's not re-inventing the wheel. In this business I don't think I have seen a single off the shelf CMS actually fit the persons needs 100%. When it comes to processing images, 2257 documentation etc etc., most of the time the off the shelf products just don't fit our needs.

IMHO, if you are going for a flagship site, something to be above and beyond the others, custom is a better way to go. If you are wanting to build 1,000 cookie cutter sites then maybe the off the shelf is better.