when you get a paysite designer to do a site how many changes can be made?

[Rich]

i want to start a basic paysite so that i can get some idea on how to do that side of the adult stuff and so that i can start to send some of my traffics to my own site and keep all of the money but i do not really know how it works when it comes to having someone design the website for me

if they design something and i dont like some of the pictures or words they use can i have them change it without being charged extra or do i need to pay more for all of the changes that i want to be made to the paysite design?

[gaybucks_chip]

THe market for design is really soft right now. Most programs are scaling back, so we have a lot of designers begging for work. You should be able to write your own terms.

We are always reasonable and fair, and what we generally tell a designer is if we give them clear instructions and they follow our instructions carefully but miss the mark, we'll be reasonable and work with them. If they put a lot of effort into a good design, but we don't like it, and they end up redoing the whole design, we'll of course pay them extra for the time.

On the other hand, if we've budgeted the project at, say 6 hours for a single page (which would mean a lot of work on individual images, custom graphics, and a really good looking design) and what they send us is some piece of shit that they've maybe put 2 hours into, then we tell them to redo it and we don't expect to pay for a re-do.

But... if you're paying top dollar, particularly with an offshore designer, you should expect near perfection. You should be able to ask for re-dos, have your instructions followed exactly, and get precisely what you want.

I've noticed there's a LOT of sloppiness and simply laziness with many of the offshore designers, particularly with a lot of the Phillipine designers. I really get the feeling that many of them put in the absolute least amount of effort possible and hope we'll accept it. The ones we've been working with for a long time know that we just reject it when they do that, so most of them have gotten to the point that they get it right the first (or at least the second) time... but we've had to work closely, and be tough sometimes, to get to that point.

[vaqueros]

I was an independent programmer for 20 years, of database applications rather than websites, and I believe my experiences with clients can offer you a bit of insight.

Be very clear and very DETAILED in the instructions you give to your programmer/designer. Do a thorough walkthrough with the programmer of the specifics of the appearance and actions throughout the site: for example, don't just say you want each model to have a page with pics. Tell him you want the pics to show as thumbnails below the main large pic and a mouseover will make the large image change to the designated thumbnail. It's tedious to cover every detail but otherwise the programmer has to guess about what you might like and if wrong he will have to do it all over. It's fine if you're not sure what you want as long as you tell the programmer that...he can suggest options and help you decide how a particular presentation or function should be.

If possible, have him show you (in person or via screen captures or something by email) mockups of the work as it is in progress. It takes a lot less time to change things when it's just a visual "shell" than when there's a ton of code that is processed behind the scenes. The programmer can then add the code to make the buttons work and the database cough up the actual information that is displayed.

Think ahead. Plan for the future and tell the programmer your ideas about where you may want to go. He can write the code with those things in mind, saving a huge amount of money when you later implement them.

There's nothing worse for a programmer than a client who changes his vision dramatically during the process and who fails to realize that it will be costly and time-consuming. The client says he wants a single thumbnail gallery page but keeps incrementally upping the ante until in the end it's a fullblown membership site with streaming video...and then howls that the programmer charges him several times the original project cost and that it took way longer than originally promised for delivery.

Good luck!

[gaybucks_chip]

vaqueros is absolutely right when you're talking about programming. To me, that's a completely different animal than web design.

We've got three different projects that we're in the process of developing web-based applications for. One of them, we have some 30 pages of specifications, including database structure, mockups of input and output pages, and written functional specifications and interactions between tables.

Many program owners may not have the technical knowledge to write such a specification, but if you don't, and your application is more than a very simple project, plan on spending at least four or five hours (and depending on complexity, maybe as much as 20 or 30) going over all of the detail of functionality and exactly what functions, actions, etc are required. A flowchart can be really helpful.

But for simple web design, of course, it's much simpler, and I think that's what the original poster was referring to.

[Lee]

Most paysite designers are happy to work with their clients to a certain extent, if you give the designer a solid idea of the type of structure you want your site to have, along with a couple of samples of other sites that you like, the designer should be able to come up with something you will like after maybe 1 revision to the overall design/layout and a 2nd revision to correct text/spelling/grammar on the site, etc.

Typically, unless the designer didnt listen to a word i told them or read what i wanted in my project brief, usually once i have the preview layout from them i am usually able to get the finished design after maybe 2 revisions max.

Of course, that doesnt take in to account those design companies that have several designers on staff whom you show the guy you are talking to a sample from their portfolio and they give the work to someone else that doesnt have the same quality of work, that is when the 'real' issues start for me.

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

Of course, that doesnt take in to account those design companies that have several designers on staff whom you show the guy you are talking to a sample from their portfolio and they give the work to someone else that doesnt have the same quality of work, that is when the 'real' issues start for me.

And one of the many reasons I don't like using outsourcing companies.

[Rich]

thanks for all the info everyone

[basschick]

something vaqueros said that i wish i had - get the designer to show you screencaps as he works on the design. that way, if something starts going wrong - if the design is moving away from your vision, you can let the designer know BEFORE the entire design is based around something you don't like. that will save the designer a lot of time and effort and make sure you get what you're looking for.

[Squirt]

This is the biggest pitfall of working with design companies

Of course, that doesnt take in to account those design companies that have several designers on staff whom you show the guy you are talking to a sample from their portfolio and they give the work to someone else that doesnt have the same quality of work, that is when the 'real' issues start for me.

[basschick]

that can easily happen with any design company - not outsourcing company - that is more than one person. i've run into issues with work that is nothing like a company's portfolio at every design company size. some were easy situations to deal with, some weren't.

And one of the many reasons I don't like using outsourcing companies.