Trial Joins And Cancellation Policies?

[Lee]

I was curious to see what you folks thought about the practice of offering trial joins, for 2 or 3 days on PPS sponsor paysites but, in order for that trial NOT to convert to a full monthly membership, the surfer needs to cancel within 48 hours of the trial day, in essence, only giving the surfer 24 hours to cancel a 2 or 3 day trial.

Do you think this is 'acceptable' when PPS sponsors offer a '3 day trial' but rather than actually being for three days, the surfer only gets 24 hours access otherwise they must cancel or rebill at full monthly price.

Do you think this is good or bad business on the part of PPS sponsor programs?

Regards,

Lee

[Squirt]

I think it's shady because the only time I've ever seen that done before was on a site where it wasn't stated up front, but rather hidden at the end of a TOS agreement.. which we know most people don't read on an impulse purchase $0.02

[Lee]

I think it's shady because the only time I've ever seen that done before was on a site where it wasn't stated up front, but rather hidden at the end of a TOS agreement.. which we know most people don't read on an impulse purchase $0.02

Thats actually where most of them are hidden, several well-known gay programs right now that offer PPS and have trials have this hidden deep in their TOS too.

Regards,

Lee

[Lee]

For example, on Broke Straight Boys....

The TOS is on the entrance page right at the bottom and it states...

6. Membership Fees. Should you access the website on the basis of a trial membership, be advised that all one trials become regular monthly memberships at the end of the trial unless the user cancels their membership by using our online tools. Subscriptions are recurring subscriptions meaning that you will automatically be billed monthly until you cancel your membership. Membership fees are non-refundable and Company will pursue by collection agencies any subscriber knowingly defrauding the system by credit card chargebacks or refunds. All membership cancellations require 48 hours notification to fully process. If you believe that you have been erroneously billed, you are required immediately to notify Company of such error. If you do not notify Company within thirty (30) days after such billing error first appears on any account statement rendered by your credit card issuer or by Company (whichever is earlier), such fee will be deemed acceptable by you for all purposes, including resolution of inquiries made by your credit card issuer. Company reserves the right to contract with a third party to process all payments and to resolve chargeback disputes. Your account will be deemed past due if it is not paid in full by the payment due date. If your account becomes past due, you agree to pay interest on the past due amount at a monthly rate of 1.5 percent (18 percent per annum), plus any additional collection costs, credits, charge backs and legal fees. Your card issuer agreement may contain additional terms with respect to your rights and liabilities as a card holder. You are responsible for reimbursing Company for all credit card charge backs, dishonored checks and related charges.

So basically, in the case of BSB, you have to cancel your membership within the first 24 hours, otherwise your '3 day trial' rebills at $29.96 plus the charge for their pre-checked cross sell of $32.11 monthly for their 'free' 1 day trial... How a member can give 48 hours notice to cancel a 1 day 'free' membership i dont know :eek:

Regards,

Lee

[HunkyLuke]

its irrelevant what you have in your terms, processing companies won't allow you to do that....otherwise they would be getting a hell of a lot more chargebacks.

[Squirt]

I think a programs TOS is very relevant. I don't have anything against BSB and didn't know they employed these tactics. I find it very disappointing.

its irrelevant what you have in your terms, processing companies won't allow you to do that....otherwise they would be getting a hell of a lot more chargebacks.

[StunnerJesse]

When I had my trial to BSB, I cancelled more than 24 hours into it and had no rebill.

People are suspect of everything today, anyway. Any halfway smart person knows to cancel the second they sign up because it won't cancel until the period is over anyway.

All I can say is that I've sold more memberships to BSB than any other site and people cannot get enough of it. Surfers are eating it up. They also generate more clicks for me than any other sponsor.

[tim460]

My two cents is it's clearly tricky, and no consumer advocate would support it. Yes, people should be street smart, but it appears the policy is made because there's an understanding or hope that many people are not. That "others are doing it, too" is right out of the news headlines these days, executives and business practices being exposed after years of no attention being paid to it. It's probably unlikely a site would get into some serious legal trouble with this at the moment. But someday it might get addressed somehow in general.

The controversy may be irrelevant anyhow if the following is true. I don't have the TOS details for a site that I canceled membership to in the distant past, but it was much more than a few days after I joined. My money was refunded by CCBill smoothly with no fuss. Maybe the billing agency has other policies that website owners are not aware of. Of course, this conjecture doesn't mean much because I've only provided vague, anecdotal info, not solid facts.

[abostonboy]

Lawyers write TOS's and tend to protect the program as much as possible. Since I can't find a TOS on any of Lee's sites I am assuming that he is using the CCbill TOS which states that all trials must be cancelled 24 hours before renewal date and 7 days before renewal date for all others. Now, I am not sure if Lee actually forces members to cancel at least 7 days before the 30 day membership renew or not, nor do I really care.

Here are some facts about Broke Straight Boys and Intense Cash.

1. That was written into the TOS to protect us when a member chooses to cancel via contacting us vs cancelling directly through the biller's online form. More specifically, it is the amount of time that covers the weekend. I am sorry but, If a member sends us an email at 11pm on a Saturday night to cancel a membership that will rebill at 7 am Sunday morning, there is a chance we will not get it in time. The TOS covers situations like these.

2. Any member can use the online billers form (which we give them a link to) and cancel at any time upto the time their membership will renew.

3. We have one full time employee that deals only with customer service issues, including cancellations. There are two other employess that can handle them as well. So, between the three there is a good chance that even on weekends they are honored within hours.

4. We have a very liberal refund policy. In no way are we going to destroy the brand over trial memberships that rebill to monthly members. Trust me, it just ain't worth it.

The bottom line: a member can cancel his membership any time he wants and we don't look at when he joined and say he can't cancel. Never had. Never will.

Maybe the question to ask is, since Lee seems to use CCbill's TOS, why does he require someone to cancel a 30 day membership at least 7 says before it renews. That seems kinda strange to say the least. So, if I join for a month and ask to cancel 27 days into my membership, I am going to get charged for another 30 days because I didn't cancel in time?

[Lee]

Maybe the question to ask is, since Lee seems to use CCbill's TOS, why does he require someone to cancel a 30 day membership at least 7 says before it renews.

I dont require anyone to cancel, at any given time rate, CCBill does.

Ill send them a link to this thread and see what they think of your question.

Regards,

Lee

[abostonboy]

That is fine Lee. From my experience with CCbill they actually honor requests right up until the cancellation date, even though their TOS says otherwise. Which was the point I was trying to make - the TOS maybe more restrictive than what the program actually does.

[Lee]

From my experience with CCbill they actually honor requests right up until the cancellation date, even though their TOS says otherwise.

So why even bring the point up if you knew they honored cancellation requests at any time during the subscription?

Regards,

Lee

[abostonboy]

Lee,

I am done with this tit for tat.

I brought it up to show that just because something is in a TOS does not mean that it is enforced in the real world. That is true with Intense Cash and it is true with Condom Cash as well, assuming that CCbill does in fact allow someone to cancel within seven days before the membership expires.

It appears that you have a TOS (via Ccbill) that is more restrictive than what happens in the real world just as we do.

I am done beating a dead horse. You can continue all you want. :catfight: