Nats Question

[PFLJayden]

As an affiliate promoting a numerous amount of sites which use NATS, I'm seeing that almost all of them hold payments for 2 weeks, some as long as a month. This makes me very leary about promoting sites. Correct me if I'm wrong... There were a lot of sites or programs if you will that were holding payments and then went out of business owing webmasters thousands of dollars.
Now, I'm hearing about all of these sites like BF Bucks who are banging credit cards and seeing companies flop.

Is this hold a norm? This is why the longest time I was Anti-Nats, but luckily Harlan at PrideBucks, Lisa at Badpuppy, and Bianca at MyGayCash talked me into trusting Nats.

I'm just too concerned. I hope that I'm safe I mean we have well over the minimum payouts with most.

[Evil Chris]

The primary reason for initial holdbacks is anti-fraud. Just to be sure the joins that are sent by the new affiliate in the first period they're sending are actually joins, and not fraudulent activity. Holding back the first payout for a short period of time gives the program ample amount of time to size up the business relationship.

[HunkyLuke]

yeah its all about combating fraudulent signups. I personally don't stress over payment delays as I only promote programs that I trust will be there in the long run.

<rant>
NO I will not touch any of the BF Bucks or other Media Revenue programs. Burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice, shame on me. And how many times have SOBV / DeeCash / Media Revenue burned webmasters by first not paying, then dropping all accounts (thus keeping rebills for themselves on any revshare accounts), then making special deals with select webmasters (only to stop those deals days later without notifying anyone), then having T&C stating they only pay on primary billers (even though they purposely pushed affiliate signups to secondary processors), and of course having sites filled with illegal, unpaid for content (stolen from reputable companies like zbuckz).
</rant>

Really, its up to you to decide if a program is reputable and trustworthy enough to promote it.

[StunnerRichard]

most programs will do this generally, - it seems to have become the industry standard.

just think about it like this: What about if CCBill or Epoch ever went tits-up? (stranger things have happened! - ala epassporte and ibill)

Each risk needs to be assessed with what you are personally comfortable with. Everyones Risk Factor is different.

Surely putting all your eggs in one basket is worse than multiple? (not that i have anything against CCBill, just trying to make people think though )

[PFLJayden]

yeah its all about combating fraudulent signups. I personally don't stress over payment delays as I only promote programs that I trust will be there in the long run.

<rant>
NO I will not touch any of the BF Bucks or other Media Revenue programs. Burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice, shame on me. And how many times have SOBV / DeeCash / Media Revenue burned webmasters by first not paying, then dropping all accounts (thus keeping rebills for themselves on any revshare accounts), then making special deals with select webmasters (only to stop those deals days later without notifying anyone), then having T&C stating they only pay on primary billers (even though they purposely pushed affiliate signups to secondary processors), and of course having sites filled with illegal, unpaid for content (stolen from reputable companies like zbuckz).
</rant>

Really, its up to you to decide if a program is reputable and trustworthy enough to promote it.

They've stolen our content on a multitude of times. I have to admit, I quit going on another forum because of all the bashing going on over there (Not GFY)... I would call a spade a spade, attacked, called a liar, etc etc etc and now looks what has happened. hmm...

Oh, and I might add.... The mailing address on their sites. FAKE! USPS can't find their addresses. And their 2257 address, FAKE again because mail is returned saying there's no known address.... :think: :think: :think:
I could go on and on and on. I think it's only a matter of time before they are shut down.

With all of this said, I completely understand the holds now and am resting assured. I am just like you Luke. If I don't trust them, I leave them. The same with sites that have to approve you as an affiliate first. This raises an eyebrow.

[PFLJayden]

most programs will do this generally, - it seems to have become the industry standard.

just think about it like this: What about if CCBill or Epoch ever went tits-up?

Thanks Richard.

I completely agree with you in regards to CCBill. Screw Epoch. I won't go there. A lot of companies are not good enough for them. None the less, that's irrelevant.

But you are right about CCBill. But it's also all about trust. If we don't trust anyone, we can't work together. Let's say nobody trusts you, you wouldn't have affiliates. It's kind of like shaking one hand with the other. As a closing statement, I do agree with you.

[abostonboy]

They've stolen our content on a multitude of times. I have to admit, I quit going on another forum because of all the bashing going on over there (Not GFY)... I would call a spade a spade, attacked, called a liar, etc etc etc and now looks what has happened. hmm...

Oh, and I might add.... The mailing address on their sites. FAKE! USPS can't find their addresses. And their 2257 address, FAKE again because mail is returned saying there's no known address.... :think: :think: :think:
I could go on and on and on. I think it's only a matter of time before they are shut down.

With all of this said, I completely understand the holds now and am resting assured. I am just like you Luke. If I don't trust them, I leave them. The same with sites that have to approve you as an affiliate first. This raises an eyebrow.

At least you stopped sending emails to my personal address accusing me of stealing your content and uploading it to tube sites and marketing it as an affiliate. What a joke that was.

Did you ever find out who was doing that? If you had asked nicely I would have told you...

[abostonboy]

With all of this said, I completely understand the holds now and am resting assured. I am just like you Luke. If I don't trust them, I leave them. The same with sites that have to approve you as an affiliate first. This raises an eyebrow.

Why does that raise an eyebrow? If you only saw some of the fraud that the PPS programs have to deal with on a daily basis. I have absolutely no problem if a program wants to approve me as an affiliate first. This is especially true if the affiliate chooses Paxum as a payout option.

(Disclaimer: I was a risk manager for an insurance company before I got in this business.)

[PFLJayden]

At least you stopped sending emails to my personal address accusing me of stealing your content and uploading it to tube sites and marketing it as an affiliate. What a joke that was.

I've never sent anything to your personal email address. Nor will I ever.

[PFLJayden]

Why does that raise an eyebrow? If you only saw some of the fraud that the PPS programs have to deal with on a daily basis. I have absolutely no problem if a program wants to approve me as an affiliate first. This is especially true if the affiliate chooses Paxum as a payout option.

(Disclaimer: I was a risk manager for an insurance company before I got in this business.)

Good for you.
Keep covering BF Bucks and the other entities you work for. It's okay. :music:

[abostonboy]

Good for you.
Keep covering BF Bucks and the other entities you work for. It's okay. :music:

Two points:

1. I don't presently work for Media Revenue.
2. When I made this remark,

Why does that raise an eyebrow? If you only saw some of the fraud that the PPS programs have to deal with on a daily basis. I have absolutely no problem if a program wants to approve me as an affiliate first. This is especially true if the affiliate chooses Paxum as a payout option.

It had absolutely nothing to do with Media Revenue.

Just common sense.

[StunnerRichard]

With all of this said, I completely understand the holds now and am resting assured. I am just like you Luke. If I don't trust them, I leave them. The same with sites that have to approve you as an affiliate first. This raises an eyebrow.

We actually used to screen affiliates, so did all the HunkMoney programs, however, we found it hinders the signup process.

Most affiliate programs that screen affiliates is primarily down to the fact they offer payouts like Paxum, in which all they know about an affiliate is their payment info.

I have had so many fraudulent affiliates over the years. The most common kind, is incentivisation, in which bloggers will post images of amateur guys, and link them to our sites, getting a surfer to signup. When they see the original guy they signed up to see, if not present on the site, they charge back- usually after a PPS has been paid!

[abostonboy]

Fraud is a huge issue -

According to a number of security researchers, the sale of stolen information and credit cards often takes place completely underground in secret credit forums, where hackers exchange or sell data. These forums are closed to the public, and people who join the groups are vetted by forum administrators to ensure they are not from law enforcement.

Posts on the forums usually list the type of information for sale, including names and addresses associated with the cards, and a price that can be negotiated. Once someone agrees to buy the information, the transaction takes place out of the forum in a secret chat room, usually using a private and secure I.C.Q. room.

Mr. Stevens said stolen credit cards usually sold for about $5 to $10 online, yet the prices vary based on the amount of information supplied with the card data and the account limit.

Hackers who claim they are responsible for the Sony breach wrote on underground forums last week that they had access to over 2.2 million credit cards. If these millions of new stolen cards were sold online, the price could fall to well below the standard rate to as low as $1 or $2 each.

To make matters worse, Sony said Monday that another server had been affected by the breach last week and as many as 12,700 credit and debit cards could have been stolen during the attack.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...olen-and-sold/

It goes like this. Person XYZ joins an adult affiliate program with a blogger account as the url. The blogger account has one "dummy" post to show (hopefully) that they are in the adult industry. Then BAM! A PPS program gets hit with huge chargebacks on cards bought anywhere from $1 - $10.

What does the affiliate program have to go on as far as the real identity of the webmaster? A Paxum email address to send money. The person committing the fraud in the program is anonymous for the most part.

That is why many programs pre-approve affiliates.

No eyebrows need to be raised...

[gumdrop]

Honey can I lick yours.
:hugs:

[abostonboy]

Good for you.
Keep covering BF Bucks and the other entities you work for. It's okay. :music:

See. This is in part is what is fundamentally wrong with this industry. You assume that by me saying "pre-approving affiliates is not a bad thing" that I am covering for a company that I no longer work for and have zero financial relationship with. I don't even market their sites as an affiliate nor have I ever had, either now or in the past.

Then others read what you said and feel that pre-approving affiliates is a "bad" thing. So they may very well avoid marketing programs that pre-approve affiliates and that are perfectly fine just because of a gripe you have with a specific company or your own lack of knowledge.