What is it about this business?

[Dzinerbear]

The adult business seems to attract more that it's fair share of scammers and snake oil salesmen.

Two weeks ago, some Japanese site hot linked a bunch of my preview pictures. Last week, I find out that someone I was trying to work a deal with to promote one another's sites is trying to scam traffic from me through some hidden link BS.

At MANcheck, we get hundreds of sites submitted every day that are created for the sole purpose of stealing our traffic. Hence, we have a TOS as long as your arm covering off every scam known to mankind. Everybody else does, too.

Some TGP owner wrote here the other day that he gets spammed every day with 100 submissions from the same guy. Another TGP submitter doesn't like sharing her work here because people have stolen it, used it, and got her into hot water.

TGP owners have to threaten you with lifetime bans and inclusions in databases just to get you to play nicely.

In January, Titan Media sent out 200,000 cease and desist notices to people illegally using their content.

So what is it about this business that it attracts the seedier side of the planet? Why are so many out to just make a quick buck?

How do we protect GWW, a refuge in a big way, from this? How do we support one another? How do we find more people like ourselves?

How do we get the industry to move forward and away from this kind of behaviour?

It's not all that difficult. I reached out to Bec once and gave her some unsolicited advice. She thanked me. I share my URL. She gave me some advice that double my sales (Thanks again, girl!) I asked her for help with my first TGP submission. She spent half an hour on the phone one night helping me. I helped her a couple of months later with search engine stuff.

I put Juicy Goo as a recip on TGPs. Brian thanked me and asked me to send him a banner for my site so he could put it on his.

I won $50 in content in the last small contest. When I got the content, I e-mailed the provider and thanked them. She e-mailed me back almost flabberghasted that I bothered to thank her.

What's up? What's so hard about being on the level, being kind to one another, not screwing one another to make a buck?

Looking forward to hearing what y'all have to say.

Dzinerbear

[dirtygeek]

How well do I know this. I keep getting people trying to steal my feeds for their site. Not only do the try to steal the stream itself, but all the graphics, name ect.

There was this one site I found in Europe that had not only my stuff, but almost every live streaming site out there, and was just giving it away. It's so funny how it's ok for them to steal from you (us), but if they find someone stealing from their site they want to sue, or start posting things about the site.

I'm sorry but I can't do business with a company that I don't trust.

[Kath]

Unfortunately - this is very true... I think that because of the perceived anonymity of the industry, people feel safer scamming others... because people don't always get to meet face-to-face over a drink and a handshake, they can sleep at night after stabbing someone in the back... and I agree - what has happened to common courtesy? Back "in the day" webmasters were much more friendly - it was much more of a community feeling on ALL boards, not just in refuges like GWW.

When I think about all the BS that goes on I get angry, but then I remember that I have surrounded myself with good, honest, hard-working folks in this industry and have distanced myself from the cheaters... I have been SO fortunate to have met so many amazing people over the years and it is THOSE PEOPLE that keep me here. If not for those wonderful few, the wicked masses would have scared me off long ago.

THANK YOU Gary-Alan for working tirelessly over the years to provide such a welcoming, friendly community for webmasters to meet, do business and get to know one another.

Oh and don't forget - KARMA will eventually bite those a--holes in the end... sometimes it takes awhile, but it DOES come around!

[Dawgy]

titan media are some of the worst. dont even get me started on them.

[Bec]

Hey Michael -- you're more than welcome to any help I can give, and I'm glad my suggestions improved the site sales ... and sometimes talking on the phone helps to clear up WHY you do something a certain way- and it's a hell of alot faster than trying to IM some concepts!

I like to try to give the benefit of the doubt to those that I meet and do business with, but sometimes you do stuff for someone and you aren't given a fair shake ... it's happened to me already, and even by folk that frequent this board ... so its not the total haven we'd like it to be, but damn close.

We can do what we can to help one another, we can try to protect our sites and our content, but the internet by its very nature pretty much prevents an absolute secure solution. I'm often asked about writings that go up on my lesbian literature website ... are they copywrite protected ... and I bite my tongue and send back a polite note saying that they own the copywrite but that I can't protect their work from being copied and distrubuted. It's up there for the world to see, and abuse, pretty much any way they choose.

Unfortunately, if someone sees a way to exploit and gain via the net -- and that just isn't about content, but about adults and kids too, they'll do it.

[AusCoding Allan]

Ok, so i've been conspicuously absent for a couple of days but having just digested this post I have to make comment.

I would still call myself a relatively new webmaster and will always see it that way because I am always learning something new.

The people that I've met and worked with on GWW have been nothing but helpful, understanding and at times tutours.

I have basically given up posting on other boards due to their lack of community feel and the lack of trust that I have for completely unknown business people but I am sure that the people who are regulars that post here are in it for the long haul to be honest open and reliable. So what more can I say but thankyou for your help, thankyou to Gary, Lee and Chris and most of all all the community members who have made my experience to date fantastic.

Cheers,

Allan

[dirtygeek]

awwww, Allan! Your so sweet sometimes! (Take me now!)I feel the same way, but I have to talk to those other "people".

[DigitalJay]

I've been burned by hosts, cc processors, avs's, tgp's, you name it. It all comes down to the bottom line. And what is easy. If it's easier to rip someone off than work your way to the top, there will always be people willing to take advantage of that. I'm sure a lot of the really awful people in this biz got their first taste of easy scams during the boom when anyone and everyone would practicly throw money at them to start something.

The content leeches have always been a problem, and probably always will be. I'm guilty of using those "public domain" pics that get people so worked up, but I learned my lesson, and I definately have never, ever hotlinked. To me thats like someone blowing a hole in the side of a movie theatre and then standing there trying to sell tickets.

I think the best way to fight it is just to report illegal activity, stay educated and informed on what is going on, and make sure you have a detailed stats script on all your sites so you know where your traffic is comming from and going. Other than that, sites like this help everyone make connections, trade horror stories so everyone knows who to avoid, and overall just learn from each others success and mistakes.

I agree with Ozmg though that communities like this are RARE, most i've found are about asking questions without offering anyone else advice, and stupid witch hunts (yeah i've heard of that guy/girl..somewhere, let's get him/her!) This is truely a unique and special resource!

[gaystoryman]

Its a way of life these days it seems, people have forgotten the values despite all the rhetoric.

Online scams happen I think because they prey on people's greed because we are inundated with the need for more money, more toys and more wealth instead of measuring true wealth with honest friendships & relationships.

This place along with one or two others offers more and you can't really protect it per se, but i think as long as people continue to strive for honest relationships, working or otherwise, then these places can survive and can become a safe haven for those willing to put aside the greed, laziness that exists.

People forget how two simple words like 'thank you' can make a difference for another. so to GWW, thank you, this is a great place to hang.

Ian

[Dzinerbear]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and feedback on this.

I understand now why this was such a tough crowd to break into. The board was friendly enough when I first joined, but it was really about 5-6 months before I felt like I was really making friends or people were willing to offer favours like recip linking.

It makes it tough for the legit and honest newbiw to get anywhere when so many of us have been burned in the past.

More thoughts and feedback?

Cheers
Dzinerbear

[Chilihost]

I hear you too, mate! I have been burned so often in this business and unfortunately I still get screwed for being too nice and trustworthy.

And I totally agree with so many here, this community is tops and I am always happy when I do business with anyone here.

cheers,
Luke

[shaun]

You know - it's an interesting coversation...

I have rarely been burned by other adult webmasters... HOWEVER...

I have been BADLY burned by allegedly "legitimate" companies (and technical people...) Because - after all - I am only a "pornographer" and I guess... due to the content, I had it coming.

You know - I think there are 2 types in this business.
Those who really do have a sex postive attitude, like what they
do and take pride in their work.

The other type are embarrassed about what they do, are ashamed of their work, are sexually repressed, disregard their customers as "wankers" - and these are the ones who are going to rip you off in the end.

That'll cost ya'll 5 cents.

[Dzinerbear]

[i]I have been BADLY burned by allegedly "legitimate" companies (and technical people...) Because - after all - I am only a "pornographer" and I guess... due to the content, I had it coming.[/B]

Ah yes, I forgot about that aspect of things. I had a freelance customer a couple of months back that I spent a lot of time with. It was around the time that I joining MANcheck, so I was talking about getting this really good contract.

He and I talked on and off all day, then he finally asked me point blank, "Well, what does this company do?"

I could have lied, but I figured he was cool.

"Is it legal?" he asked.

A couple of weeks later, he called with some stuff to finish up his site and told me that when the site was done, he had another client for me, but he said, "But you have to promise me that you'll never tell me wife and this person what you really do."

Oh brother.
Dzinerbear

[Lee]

Some great repliesin this thread from everyone :thumbsup:

I have to admit i pretty much agree with all thats been said so far

Thank you all for your kind words about the GWW community to we couldnt have made this place as rocking as it is without you guys to so from us to you .. Thank you for makign this place what it is
Regards,

Lee

[Dzinerbear]

I'm giving this thread a bump because (a) I think there's good stuff here and I'd like to hear more, and (b) I'll be damned if Bec's going to beat me in the longest post contest with her BDSM thread. :crybaby:

So yesterday, I find this other site that's got a bunch of text at the bottom of one of his pages. A few words that he's copied from one of my pages, and then, he pasted the URL of my site along with this text. He's done the same with a whole bunch of like-minded sites, like xstr8guy's. (If you'd like to see if he's ripping you off check this URL: gayfetishpicpost[dot]com[forwardslash]content[forwardslash]program[forwardslash]gay[forwardslash]hdk[forwardslash]rod_stefano[forwardslash]index2.htm
I don't want to actually give him a link that will help him in Google, so just paste the above URL in the address bar and replace those bits in square brackets.)

The only reason he's doing such a thing is to scam traffic from search engines.

So I got to thinking throughout this thread that so many of us have been burned by various people. Don't you think there's something we could do as a group to help and protect one another?

I know that we all talk privately and share information, but wouldn't it be nice to actually have this information compiled somewhere? Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a central collection point where we could log a complaint about a site, a sponsor, or a webmaster? Would it be nice to be able to go to 20 or 30 GWW members and ask them to put the pressure on a guy like this to play fairly? TGP operators seem to do it, why can't we?

Wouldn't it be good to have two levels of GWW members? The general population as it stands now, and then, an inner circle of trusted people, people we've worked with and know are reputable. I know it sounds a bit clickish and I'm not suggesting we don't try to help new people, not at all, it's just this is my business, my livelihood, I need to protect myself as much as possible from scum-suckers like this site owner above.

There are some people on this list that I would help in a second. And I know many feel the same about me, and maybe that's one of the things that's so nice about this place is that it isn't so formal. I don't know, thinking out loud here.

Thoughts?
Dzinerbear