Am I losing sales not offering Visa?

[LavenderLounge]

My membership site is just now starting to make some decent money, and so far I have not been willing to spend the $750 to offer Visa as a payment option. (I have CCBill, and before that IBill.)

What percentage of your sales are Visa?

How many sales am I losing by not offering it?

I have had only one complaint about it in a whole year, and he might have been overseas anyway.

[Chilihost]

YES!!! you are losing the majority of your potential sales. The visa fee should be looked at as a cost of doing business and if you cannot afford it then you should not be in this business!

cheers,
Luke

[Hotpopporn]

Boy, Luke, that was a bit harsh, true, but harsh.

[Hotpopporn]

Originally posted by Hotpopporn
Boy, Luke, that was a bit harsh, true, but harsh.

Mark, Actually, I tried to edit my comment, but it was too late. I actually don't think you're losing any sales as a result of not having your own credit card processor. As long as they can pay, using CCBill, with a credit card, it is no less convenient. It might be costing you more on a per transaction basis, though.

[BDBionic]

I'd have to agree with Luke in that the Visa fee is just a part of doing business these days. It should be factored in from the get go as an expense that need be covered.

Visa has enough credit card market share that it's just something you gotta accept.

And that you definitely are losing sales by not having it.

[Hotpopporn]

Originally posted by BDBionic
I'd have to agree with Luke in that the Visa fee is just a part of doing business these days. It should be factored in from the get go as an expense that need be covered.

Visa has enough credit card market share that it's just something you gotta accept.

And that you definitely are losing sales by not having it.

I must be missing something, other than transaction costs, why would Mark be losing business using CCBill instead of processing his own credit cards?

[BDBionic]

Originally posted by Hotpopporn
I must be missing something, other than transaction costs, why would Mark be losing business using CCBill instead of processing his own credit cards?

CCBill is only the 3rd party processor.

CCBill would process Visa. He can't process his own, and so uses CCBill to process Visa, Mastercard, JCB and Discover.

But you got to pay $750 to have CCBill process Visa for you because of Visa's rules concerning adult sites. Without paying that money, CCBill can not process Visa for him. Same way with all 3 big processors, pretty much (IBill, PayCom/Epoch, CCBill) I believe.

So he'd either process Visa through CCBill, or not process Visa at all.

[gaystoryman]

Well I disagree totally on VISA and losing sales.

When this whole VISA blackmail started I was running a membership site and opted not to pay it.

I simply upped the VISA price and offered MC at a lower price and all.. WITHOUT EXCEPTION... of my members opted to renew using MC or DISCOVER...

I moved out of a membership site simply because I can make more selling the books individually and don't have to worry about updates or anything...

But with decent marketing I don't think anyone can lose out in any dramatic sense.

Just a reminder, the argument used on why you need to cough up $750 for VISA or lose sales is the same argument used way back when AMEX opted to get out of the adult area... THe Adult biz didn't collapse nor will yours if you just use creative pricing and up front honest approaches.

And with all due respect, I'd say that simply because someone doesn't wish to pay or feel they can't justify the $750 blackmail fee is any reason for them to get out of the business.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Ian

[basschick]

about 70 - 75% of our sales are visa, and unlike gaystoryman, when we tried not offering visa, our sales dropped about 40%.

also keep in mind that $750 is not that much, and mastercard is the company that is levying fines so high that they put pswbilling out of business. also epoch was suing them for fines that totalled over a million dollars, as i recall.

also those fines are for unspecified percentages of chargebacks, and there are no specific written regulations, so there is no way to comply with mastercard if they want to fine you.

[basschick]

as far as calling the $750 visa registration fee blackmail, i keep in mind that most business stuff includes start up costs. many hosts charge a set up fee, and other companies charge deposits or other expenses when you start up.

[BDBionic]

I think it's important we remind ourselves of how credit cards work.
It's the credit card company's money, not the surfer or ours.
The lender purchases that membership. And the surfer pays back the lender at a later date for that purchase.
So, really, I have trouble faulting the credit card networks for working to protect their own money. Because it is their money.
And, really, when credit cards are involved in the process we as online merchants never actually get money from the surfer themselves. We get it from the lender.
So I simply can't find fault in Visa demanding that fee. It's their money! It's entirely up to them who they want to give it to and who they don't want to. And there were enough bad apples in the barrel to leave the rest of us stuck with this $750 fee. And we just gotta live with it.

It's now a basic business expense. We know full well we engage in a high-risk industry where there are complications and issues unique to it and unlike any others faced by those in different industries.

Our bandwidth usage is high because of all the video we stream and make available.
Our competition is fierce because there are so many other adult sites like ours out there.
Access to our websites need be controlled because of the kinds of content that rests on them.
Legal issues concerning our content and sites are different than those faced by others.
We see lots of naked people.
Those are just some of the inevitable and everpresent, definitive aspects of this industry. And a $750 Visa fee is now one of them.

There is no entitlement here to credit card processing. We don't have a right to it. It's the lender's money and when one of those lender's with a 60% market share throws a new rule on the book, we gotta accept it.

Of course, their are always other options. Not processing that particular card. Not doing business in this country. Not accepting credit cards at all. Arranging for some other type of payment set up that doesn't involve Visa. But then that is a business decision just like moving hosts or upgrading to a new server or buying advertising or redesigning your site. Just one of the many decisions that has to be made by a business. Weigh the pros and the cons and if it makes financial sense then go with it. Business.

Just business.

[Hotpopporn]

Brian,

I guess the reason I was confused is that when I looked a LavenderLounge, I was taken to CCBill's payment options, including credit cards were one of the payment options. So, I guess that means he paid CCBills fee.

I thought Mark was saying that he was using CCBill because he couldn't afford to pay the initial fee to process his own cards.

[basschick]

BDBionic - you certainly filled in my comments admirably! and every word you said is true. no one owes us credit card processing...

[gaystoryman]

To be honest, I think the adult industry has caved in too easily to VISA but it is just my opinion.

Like has been said, its a decision we all make individually depending on our own strengths and weaknesses. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Oh well. I am just an odd duck in an odd world.

Ian

[rick]

Originally posted by gaystoryman
Well I disagree totally on VISA and losing sales.

When this whole VISA blackmail started I was running a membership site and opted not to pay it.

I simply upped the VISA price and offered MC at a lower price and all.. WITHOUT EXCEPTION... of my members opted to renew using MC or DISCOVER...

And, it's very very illegal.

Card association rules clearly state you can not charge a higher price or offer a discount rate in that manner. You can not say "use Visa and get a 20% discount!" or anything like that.

It's bullshit, but those are the rules.