http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=5106
"The new law would allow inspectors to make unannounced visits to CSVs during peak hours of operation. CSVs would be required to offer HIV testing and counseling, provide condoms and post signs that detail the new regulations. Engaging in unprotected sex can result in the revocation of permits and closing of CSVs."
just as you prepare to stick it in, surprise!!!!!! here's mr inspector and you get an "unprotected sex ticket"...
fucking weird....
"Hi My name is Dick the CVS inspector pull out so I can see if you're wearing a condom"
That would probably see many legal battles before it becomes enforcable
it seems to me that this law is another way to make gay men a part of a different legal system - and make hiv a "gay disease" once again.
besides, what ever happened to privacy? people DID have the legal right to be self-destructive, and although that's sad, do we really want laws controlling our sexual activity? this bullshit will open up a new way for courts to control everyone's sex life
See, I've always thought that barebacking is like smoking. You know that eventually it's going to kill you, but you do it anyway.
And I smoke.
So I can't throw stones.
yeah, but they're not making a law controlling your smoking...
exactly.
I mean.. I can't do it in a place where innocent bystanders will get hit with my smoke, but it's different, isn't it?
"Bath houses" have been banned in San Francisco for 20 years. "Sex clubs" are allowed as long as there are no private rooms or public showers.
Employees of the sex clubs are required to periodically walk through the facility every hour or so to check for unsafe practices. If the LA clubs could self regulate using their own employees to police the place, it would be less intrusive than having some official person drop in.
Mark Kliem
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Gawd. California. I don't know if I could handle it.
Because of Texas' southern blue law and alcohol prohibition histories, the state today has a firm set of legal language about Private Clubs. In the 1950s, you couldn't go into a restaurant like Chili's (or whereever) and order a martini. Only private clubs could sell mixed drinks, etc. Now most of all that is gone, but the private club laws still exist.
The bathhouses in Texas are legally organized as private clubs, which makes them like your own house - and you can walk around naked in your own house, do what you want. As long as they comply with the zoning and land use regulations, fire codes, and individual cities have varying Sexually Oriented Business ordinances which might prohibit video rooms, etc. Don't serve alcohol or food, obviously.
San Antonio has three of 'em.
Federalism is extremely interesting.
Steve
I'd hate to be the poor inspector guy who draws the short straw and pulls spooge patrol duty.
I dont see a problem with it and I think it's the grownup responsible thing to do. Theyre just going to be sitting in an office and made available in case a bathhouse patron wants to see them.
And it might make people think twice before they bareback.
I just read that 80% of the gay population in palm springs is hiv+. Its just a barebacking carefree frenzy there and people don't understand how serious hiv is.
Something has to be done to put some sense into some people that a few minutes of hot sex isn't worth a lifetime of a debilitating disease.
Last edited by Marc; 09-09-2004 at 04:10 PM.
80%? That seems a little odd.
I hear statistics like that thrown around all the time, but I don't know how based in fact they are or if they're from a less reputiable source.
If they were really just sitting in an office giving info, that would be one thing, but I think they're talking about walking around and policing people's sex lives. That's another thing altogether.
(Note to self.. ditch the play scenario you were planning with Brian where he's the spooge patrol inspector and you're the bad, bad man with the loaded gun)
Marc - i've never seen any documentation to support that 80% - it's probably a scare number and utter bullshit. and how is having big brother force a certain behaviour on people "the grownup thing" to do?
private clubs here aren't that private. they police them like non private clubs.
it would be nice to see people act like adults and think for themeslves, but in a country where old money owns alcohol and tobacco, i seriously doubt we're ever going to be taught in schoold to think for ourselves. after all, if we were taught logic and an overall feeling of self preservation in schools, who would ever bother to smoke a cigarette?
education rocks. prohibition sucks.
I dont know about the 80% either, I read it in a letter from someone who wasn't a health official official, but is gay and has lived in palm springs for years.
I've talked to 3 guys from palm springs and when I ask them what it's like in PS the first thing they talk about is the hiv, and just for kicks I went on to manhunt and looked at profiles form palm springs and a majority of them mention hiv+ in their profiles.
I've never heard that talking from any other cities.
Hey I think people can do what they want, I dont want to stop anyone. Im no angel. Its your life do what you want and enjoy yourselves. But I think there are a lot of people out there who got a disease and wish they had talked to a health professional beforehand, or had some counseling before they did something crazy.
Its really sad to hear a young person say theyre not worried about catching hiv because "Magic Johnson has it, and look how good he looks. So Im not concerned". That really breaks my heart.
Plus the meds are extremely expensive, over $1k a month, and if the govt is offering assistance with this then you bet the govt is going to try and and stop more infections from happening.
Marc - while i agree with a lot of what you said, do you really think people are going to go to bathhouses for counseling? in l.a., there are quite a few places to get help and info. you can read about them on billboards, in free newspapers (gay and straight) and late night tv. there's some listings in the phone book, too.
Marc,Originally posted by Marc
I dont see a problem with it and I think it's the grownup responsible thing to do. Theyre just going to be sitting in an office and made available in case a bathhouse patron wants to see them.
And it might make people think twice before they bareback.
I just read that 80% of the gay population in palm springs is hiv+. Its just a barebacking carefree frenzy there and people don't understand how serious hiv is.
Something has to be done to put some sense into some people that a few minutes of hot sex isn't worth a lifetime of a debilitating disease.
The problem with it, is it puts our rights in the hands (no pun intended) of people who have no vested interest in us as a community. It definitely takes a way civil liberties. And, I think it's just a bad idea to give the government that kind of authority in my private life (as private as it can be in a bath house).
I believe there are already regulations that require bathhouses to self-police, offer hiv testing & counseling. If it's not a regulation, I know that it's offered at many of them, in any case.
As for San Francisco, yes, they did outlaw bathhouses, I believe in the late '80's. During the year that I lived in the City, not only were people having unsafe (altered state) sex in sex clubs, private homes, parks bushes, cars, the beach, the gym. And, there is a beautiful bathhouse just accross the Bay Bridge in Berkley; which you can easily reach by car in 15 minutes and by BART in not much more. So, I'm not really sure what was accomplished. I have never seen so many people so willing to have unsafe sex in my life, and trust me, I have seen a lot of people wanting and having sex in my life
There is nothing that is more upsetting to me, than hearing that someone under the age of 30 is hiv+. Except in very rare occurrances, like a condom broke, there is no excusible reason. Being positive for at least 17 years (and fortunately I've been healthy for all of them), this is not something I would ever want to see someone have to suffer. The stigma, the fear of the unknown as for the future, the guilt of potentially infecting someone else, not fun things to deal with, especially for men who should be worried about which club to go to, which hot guy to go home with, which guy should I approach a risk rejection. This is just not something I want to see guys in their prime sex years having to deal with.
But, I still believe that the government's involvement should be education, healthcare and research. Not patrolling the halls of sex clubs and bathhouses. Once we're there, let's hope that people have been armed with all the knowledge that need to make an imformed decision. If they still choose to do the "wrong" thing, stopping it there, is most likely going to be effective in delaying the inevitable.
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