I feel

[BDBionic]

that when a community board - one that is marketed and promoted as such and a board whose value comes from the members that post on it, interact with one another, and give the entire board substance in the first place - is censored and discussion closed and locked out and people are not allowed to discuss things freely among one another, it does affect all board participants directly.

And just because the board's owners feel discussion isn't necessary doesn't make it so. Just because you don't want anyone to talk about it, Lee, doesn't mean it's not something that should be talked about. Just because it's a done issue for you doesn't mean it is for anyone else.

And I'm not even talking about the banning of certain companies. I'm talking about the subsequent censorship of those concerned about the decision.

The ability to conduct worthwhile business and engage in valid discussions on this board, in my opinion, is significantly decreased when opinions are filtered through the board's administrator before they can be posted.

On a different note, I've over time posted several articles I've written for a magazine and company that's now banned from this forum in the articles and tutorials forum on GWW. I'd appreciate it if all threads I've made in there were removed. Because of the banning of certain words and company names on this site, proper credit can't be given in those articles to the publication that owns the copyright. A condition of my posting them here in the first place was that mention and credit could be given to the owner of the articles. With that not being possible, the articles can't remain. I know it might seem like I'm being petty here, but I'm actually reluctantly going by the book in it. There are ample hundreds of other articles in that forum as is, and so I doubt it'd have any real effect on the availability of information in that forum.

[BDBionic]

Feel free to lock this thread and stifle discussion.

[BDBionic]

This post was more out of peculiar curiosity to see if I could get another post in before it was locked. Gotta keep myself entertained somehow.

[Lee]

that when a community board - one that is marketed and promoted as such and a board whose value comes from the members that post on it, interact with one another, and give the entire board substance in the first place - is censored and discussion closed and locked out and people are not allowed to discuss things freely among one another, it does affect all board participants directly.

Then as per my original thread on the matter, they should contact me by email with any concerns they have.

And just because the board's owners feel discussion isn't necessary doesn't make it so. Just because you don't want anyone to talk about it, Lee, doesn't mean it's not something that should be talked about. Just because it's a done issue for you doesn't mean it is for anyone else.

Again, then as per my original thread on the matter, they should contact me by email with any concerns they have. Those instructions are not difficult to follow.

The ability to conduct worthwhile business and engage in valid discussions on this board, in my opinion, is significantly decreased when opinions are filtered through the board's administrator before they can be posted.

To my knowledge, other than posters from the companies concerned, NOBODY on the GWW community even mentioned those two companies names.

On a different note, I've over time posted several articles I've written for a magazine and company that's now banned from this forum in the articles and tutorials forum on GWW. I'd appreciate it if all threads I've made in there were removed.

I have facilitated this for you Brian as per your request.

Regards,

Lee

[Lee]

I would also like to point out a couple of things that have been raised in the various topics on the matter of the recent bannings of company names and employees on the GWW community.

1) Despite what ANY of you think, im running a business and NOT a democracy. I have been vocal and will continue to remain vocal about the politics played by certain individuals and companies within the adult industry, we dont play the politics game, we never have and, we never will.

2) This thread shall remain open to give those people who have been sent here by the two companies that were recently banned a chance to post their concerns publicly.

3) Irrespective of whether or not you think my decision was right or wrong, my decision stands, my company, my forum, my rules. if any of you dont like that, ill be sorry to see you go but, you must do whatever you feel is necessary in this situation.

4) This was a business decision, nothing more, nothing less, ill run my business how i see fit just as i would expect you to run yours how you see fit. Again, if you dont like that, ill be sorry to see you go but you should immediately cease doing business with me.

Regards,

Lee

[BDBionic]

This business depends on the participation of the members of this forum. Without people posting, there's nothing here. Your service, product, and business depend on whether or not people participate in what goes on here. So the business model itself not only depends on but constitutes nothing more than active participation of forum goers in discussions here.

To stifle that discussion or think that your own subjective interpretation of what can and can not be said here is all that matters is unwise even within your own business model at best.

Beyond that, thank you for taking care of those articles for me.

[gaystoryman]

Wow.. I don't know, last few days have certainly been interesting and rather sad too.

I like to stay out of this stuff, but I don't know. This was a place for me to come to and unwind, get some helpful info and ask some dumb questions without getting bit or slapped like so many other boards.

I agree, this is a business and I certainly am in no position to tell anyone how to run their business. But I am also not totally daft. I have been in business since I was 11 with the family so I know one or two things.

I know that negative comments are a blessing to a truly innovative company because you can learn and improve your operation by what the unsatisfied have to say. Sure, sometimes it is just sour grapes, but outsiders see how you handle that and make judgements accordingly.

In business, any kind, and you handle 'sour grape' complaints poorly, it reflects badly on the business. It doesn't inspire confidence in the business. So from a business perspective, I would say one has to take the lumps sometimes in order to maintain a high creditability with the consumer.

I know I have had bad reviews on my work, it hurt like hell but you know, those posts still are up and it hasn't really harmed my business model one bit. In fact it has helped it as it allowed me to correct a problem I wasn't aware of, second it boosted sales because I didn't go overboard in defending my position. From a purely business view it was a win-win for me.

Obvioulsy there is a lot of 'history' that many may not be aware of. That is between the parties but I have to say, that I feel saddened by how this has gone, from all sides.

I also hate it when people bandy the word 'nazi' around. I am sorry because being Jewish, I know what that word conjures up. The actions taken are 'authoritarian' and some may even feel they are 'unwarranted' but it is in no way being a 'nazi'. Nazi's brutally killed millions simply because they were 'different' so to compare the actions by any person here to that travisty is just not right in my view.

That doesn't mean I agree with the decisions made but this isn't my board. From a business viewpoint I feel that this is not condusive to open dialogue and business progression but again, not my business.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that perhaps all parties should step back for a bit, and re-evaluate their positions here. This isn't going to increase anyone's sales if everyone is pissed off with everyone else. No sales happen when a forum ceases to be a valid home for discussion and interaction.

Maybe I am out of line, but I think everyone should chill and keep their eyes focused on the big picture, which is to make sales. I mean the bottom line of any business is to expand and grow. Along the way shit happens, but this place held to a higher standard. I'd personally like to see that standard return but again, not my call. I know that I have made good contacts here, I respect many of those who post here and would like to continue in that spirit.

So I hope some reflection, some cooling down of emotions will come about.

Just my 2 cents
Ian

[Xstr8guy]

I need to say something...

I really don't think that most of the regular members care that those 2 companies were banned.

To my knowledge, they rarely posted here. And when they did show up, they were here only to stir up controversy and question the credibility of this board's owners.

I don't think there is any doubt that their (the banned companies) purpose was only to protect their own interests because they perceive GWW as a threat to their security.


BD, I think you one of the valuable assets of this board. Without a doubt! I would certainly hate to see you go. But I completely understand why Lee has chosen to handle this the way he has.

[Kimmy]

"Kimmy,

Again, if you have an issue that directly effects you contact me by email.

My instructions really arent that hard to follow.

Regards,

Lee"
===========================

The only direct effect this has on me, or on anyone that mentioned the situation to me, is to drive posters away from your board. I don't work for any of the companies, their owners are friends of mine, but once again, no one from any such company was involved in my seeing the situation.

The situation does remind me quite handily of YNOT, circa 98 or so.

[rand]

Originally posted by Kimmy

The situation does remind me quite handily of YNOT, circa 98 or so.

Totally.

[BDBionic]

For clarification again... I don't care so much about C*bersocket and B*dfellow being banned so much as I think it's highly unfortunate it was deemed no one else could question that decision or even have a discussion about it.

That any thread mentioning it was immediately locked. That all discussion of it was stifled and ruled out of order.

There are a lot of people on this board who do contribute. Who do participate and have spent a lot of time and energy sharing information, engaging in discussions, offering up and seeking out advice here, being active members of this forum. All of the things that give this board any substance and value.

To suggest that they're not entitled to share opinions regarding any of this is what I think is wrong.

Not only myself, but Aly and Holly and Randy and Rand and JustMe and others who've been here for awhile, posted on here often and frequently, and even sponsored the board. Told to hush up and move along because Lee didn't feel like we had any right to have an opinion on it and that C*bersocket and B*dfellow were the only ones "directly affected".

That is what I have a problem with.

And just as I think the only reason why my presence on this board all this time has had any slight worth is because I've never shyed away from expressing myself or sharing thoughts and feelings on it, I don't feel like shying away from saying any of this right now.

Gary-Alan and Lee have created a wonderful framework and structure for a valuable product and service with this board. But it's the members - those that post - that fill that framework with substance and form. That provide the interaction and information that keeps people coming back and makes new people sign up to contribute as well. To cast off the value of the members because we don't own the board is foolish.

[BDBionic]

There's a mutually beneficial relationship that makes this board, as a business work.

People are allowed to engage and discuss and deliver and receive information. That keeps them coming back. That creates activity and membership. In turn, all of that can be capitalized on to generate an income source for the ownership. That's the business. Take out the first part of all of this and what's left? A "business" without a product?

That's why it bugs me that respected people dedicated to this community were so quickly shut up and discouraged from discussing the matter because it didn't "directly affect them".

[Dzinerbear]

One of the things that I have always loved about Gay Wide Webmasters is that we've been able to discuss things and learn from one another with some decorum and respect. With the odd exception, board members are respectful of one another, and while we may, at times, disagree with one another, again we have tended to do so in a respectful manner. That makes this place a very desirable place to hang out and call a home base. It's one of the reasons I'm here and not on some other board.

But when people begin joining GWW simply to join in a fight, it's time to shut down the discussion. Take it to private, people, and fight it out amongst yourself – I don't want to smell your dirty underwear, it's not my fetish.

Cheers,
Dzinerbear

[Xstr8guy]

Originally posted by Dzinerbear
I don't want to smell your dirty underwear, it's not my fetish.

Cheers,
Dzinerbear

Totally.

[desslock]

As an individual for whom the products offered on this website are targeted to let me point out:

I spend time on this board because I am a webmaster who runs gay adult websites. That is my own full time job. For me, I do business with GWW sponsors, as well as with the programs who are now taboo.

So from where I am sitting, I am really confused as to what to post about, and what questions to ask on GayWideWebmasters. For example, I posted a thread early last year about one of the taboo affiliate programs, just wondering if their reporting was working. I did not know *the rules*. I just thought this would be an appropriate place.

Well what if someone makes that mistake a month from now? I hope I don't forget.

What I am saying is that for me as someone seeking to improve my business, I'm unhappy with quartering up programs which are labeled inappropriate discussion material.

This effects me when seeking to learn about website programs that I participate in. That also changes the value of GayWideWebmasters as a place to learn about affiliate programs, and meet other like minded individuals.

I respect the GWW owners' right to exercize their own rules. I just wanted to post this to articulate how this effects a typical board user.

Steve