Can we compare running an Avs site vs. paysite?

[Marc]

Ive never touched avs before, all ive ever done is send traffic to paysite sponsors. Now I want to invest in myself more and my own site tours and creations.

I have a site concept I want to try out but I dont want to have to go overboard and invest too much money into it, in case it flops. So Im thinking of making an Avs site out of it and if it succeeds then moving it over to a full paysite.

Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of having an avs site vs a paysite?

I have the money to pay the visa fee and for content thats not a problem, but I was thinking of testing the waters first with avs.

Also if you have a lot of avs clients and decide to move over to paysite, is it easy to transfer the rebills, or do you have to start all over with rebills?

I look at a successful site like Manhaven who stays as avs even after a lot of success and wonder what the benefit is of staying avs.

hope my questions make sense, im just trying to learn more. thanks

[basschick]

i often test the paysite waters first with an avs site.

here's the differences that come to mind for me first:

no avs that i know of offers the prices i am most likely to use, and price can affect sales. the average premium avs membership is a significant amount more than my monthly charge.

you don't have as much control over the appearance of your join page with an avs, and that can make a large difference also.

your paysite won't have a sales pitch about all the content that the avs provides, nor will that extra content (all those other sites) be there for a paysite.

a paysite doesn't have thousands of members able to enter your site without buying anything.

also you won't have nearly as much content in an avs site, and that will change your tour (less models available) and your member area. if you have a rare niche, you will probably rebill better as a paysite if you have lots of your niche's content plus updates in that niche.

i'm sure there are more, but there's a start. expect your paysite to convert better than your paysite, unless you're doing something wrong. but your avs site - if well done - will outsell or at least match your sponsors.

[baddog]

basschick . . . I have to admit I am really surprised reading this post of yours.

I don't know what AVS you are dealing with, but SexPicturesPass, while it may not offer a premium membership, surely allows you to have your join page look however you wish, as long as the login box is there, you can design everything else however you want. And that includes saying that they are going to get access to your site and thousands more.

As far as having "thousands of members able to enter your site without buying anything" you are reminding me of my thought process back in 1996 or 1997. First off, you are sharing that traffic with 1,000's of other sites in the system, so if you are getting that much traffic you must have something really special going on. And, every one of those "non-paying" members are credit card holders, that have proven a willingness to utilize it to purchase online porn. That is what the upsell is for.

I suppose you would be bummed if you had 1,000's of SE hits as well, right? Well, here is a clue, AVS traffic is better than SE traffic, because you have already filtered out the people that will never buy anything.

I am reading your post over again, and I think you might just be tired because there are statements that just don't make sense (ie: expect your paysite to convert better than your paysite). So I will just write it off to being 2 AM and leave it at that.

Marc, you will not be able to transfer your AVS members to your paysite, but you can upsell them to your paysite. In fact, AVS is a great way to test your abilities at marketing and traffic generation before stepping up to a paysite.

You are welcome to read the tutorial I have written on AVS in 2005. Most of your questions have been addressed in it.

[basschick]

baddog - i AM tired, but everything i said is true.

i didn't say it was bad or good to have avs members in your site, but it is different. your paysite may not have upsells, your avs site probably will. it's a big difference 'cause if you don't sell memberships to a paysite, it ain't gonna have a single person inside.

most avs scripts that didn't make my pages look lousy from the colors, the size, the shape or the pictures on it (a porn star for my hairy amateur sites, a twink for my black muscle men sites, and so on).

i chose a couple random sites off your sites list. here are the join links from their avs scripts:
http://www.sexpicturespass.com/idsignup.cgi?referal=384
http://www.sexpicturespass.com/idsig...i?referal=6500

the first thing i see is a banner to gaymengalore. what if i have a solo male site, and they don't want to see gay sex? a bunch of the popups are straight popups - plenty of tits. and if the surfers clicks to join the avs site, they end up at the join page for gaymengalore. it doesn't say this is an avs. it doesn't say sex pictures pass.

[Dzinerbear]

Marc,

I guess the couple of big advantages over running a paysite are: (1) you don't have to follow of bunch of AEN rules, (2) it's yours and you have more control over it, and (3) you can have webmasters all over the planet promoting it and sending you traffic.

I think the downside is: you're always sweating about keeping chargebacks down, you probably have to do more customer service (I lost my password, why is this picture small, where's this week's update it's 30 minutes late), you have to monitor webmasters to make sure they're not ripping you off, you have to update the site regularly.

I'm quite happy to let an AEN keep half the money so they can handle all of that crap, then I get to do what I love doing ... running a site.

The downside of running an AEN site is that you're never really sure where you stand with processing. If credit card companies change the rules, you could be left scrambling for a merchant account.

Some AEN sites have really dumb rules. Most of them are in place because somewhere along the line, webmasters found a loophole to screw the AEN. Still, they can be a hassle.

You're a part of a network, and therefore, you're dependant on the design skills and integrity of other webmasters. If they design crap (and there's a lot of it) then everyone looks bad; if they screw surfers, the whole AEN looks bad.

The other big problem is that you're constantly chasing traffic. You need to make galleries, you need to SEO, you need to submit new galleries to the AEN and link lists. And because every AEN is approving another whole bunch of galleries every day, there's always a race to stay on top of the heap.

The best way these days to make money in AEN is to build a hub site that would pretty much look like a big paysite. Could we all say this together: The days of putting three pictures on a page and saying, "Click here to enter" are gone. If you want to make money you need to put more effort into your sites and galleries.

Like others have said, an AEN site could be a good way to test whether your paysite idea would sell or not.

I do well with AEN sites, but then I work hard at it. It seems like a lot of AEN webmasters are still dreaming of the good ole days. If there's anything I can help you with, just PM me, I'm happy to help.

Dzinerbear

[baddog]

Originally posted by basschick
and if the surfers clicks to join the avs site, they end up at the join page for gaymengalore. it doesn't say this is an avs. it doesn't say sex pictures pass.

You might notice on gaymengalore that it does say if you buy a membership to their site (full or trial) you get a lifetime membership to SPP

[Xstr8guy]

A deluxe AEN site is a great way to test the waters for a paysite.

And with monthly recurring of $15-20, it's hard to beat that even with a paysite... considering that the AEN is doing all of the processing, customer service and in many cases providing content and hosting.

[Marc]

Wow these are great replies with everything I need, thanks everyone.
I'mM reading that tutorial now thansk Baddog.

btw what does AEN mean?
adult entertainment network? is that another word for AVS?

[Bec]

Yes ... Adult Entertainment Network is the new term for AVS ... since AVS can't actually "verify" anyone's age, the term has changed.

[universalpass]

The only major difference is that you manage your own content! Besides that there is really not much difference between them!

Now some webmasters don't want the headache of managing thier own content. But the flip side to that is upsells from within the members area, plus traffic from the AVS directory.