Gay homophopia?

Rainbo1956 · 02-28-2005, 04:13 AM

I started to talk about this in another thread but thought id needed it own thread.

Maybe some just can't "define" straight.
I.e...they could be questioning, bi, in the closet...etc...

I live with someone who shocked the hell out me tonight.
I was talking about fixing a "straight married" woman friend of mine up with a tall dark and handsom woman friend...cause I think my "married friend is gay" and her marriage sucks...she's very un-happy. I would really like her to meet this woman. She flirts with all my sisters lesbian friends anyway...

I figure, what the hell, they meet, they'd like each other anyway and maybe just become great friends!

Well, my friend says to me "Oh, well...then that would ruin her marriage and she'd never go back to men again".

And, he said in such a way as to sound like it would be a BAD thing.

I said WTF are you saying???...ruin her marriage? First, I want to know would THAT be a bad thing IF she actually were gay and just never got to explore it, met a woman she liked and decideed to live "her" life now???

He says....again..."Well, that would ruin her marriage and she'd lose the life she has now. I mean she has kids and she's married. Why ruin that?"

I said "Well, if she's gay after all and is repressing it...she's never going to make anyone happy...her kids or anyone"

He says "Yeah well, but she married and she has her kids to think of"

Sheesh, I felt helpless...I didn't want to defend something that "hadn't" happen.....but, by the same token, I didn't want to get into a whole debate over something that is a personal issue...know what I mean

Ummm, is it just me or can anyone else see the homophobia in gay people as well?

I was shocked as hell at what my friend said...shocked I tell ya. To the point I couldn't or we wouldn't even discuss it any longer
(I should ad here that I asked if he were homophobic....and I also should add that I asked if he maybe thought he should have stayed in HIS straight mariage) After that, I knew I needed to back down....someone here could enlighten me.

Please splain it to me like I'm 6LOL...maybe they just can't "define" straight.
I.e...they could be questioning, bi, in the closet...etc...

Rainbo1956 · 02-28-2005, 04:50 AM

Please excuse my typos....I was mostly tyring to get it all said in a hurry.
I live with this person (My Ex) and I wanted to make sure I got all my thoughts accross at once....that, and I have to type on an old fricking pc keyboard when I'm used to a laptop (excuses, excuses...hehehe)

Madame0120 · 02-28-2005, 07:22 AM

Please splain it to me like I'm 6LOL...maybe they just can't "define" straight.
I.e...they could be questioning, bi, in the closet...etc...

Maybe Women bond to each other cause they keep picking the same stupid man over and over and over again, then blame it on anything except their inablity to choose a well-matched and caring partner.

Like I've told too many girfriends in the past .. it's not the DICK, it's what's attached to it.

OR

Maybe we have more than 2 genders in the human race.

**DonMike** · 02-28-2005, 01:11 PM

Madame, we definitely have more than 2 genders in the human race.

I would take this as a two part question, Rainbo. First, if your friend was married and you met a straight guy that you think she would really fall for, would you want to introduce them? Wouldn't that just cause undue stress on your friend making her rethink her marriage to the guy she's with? I think that is the real issue here.

If she is gay, then it's something she needs to figure out for herself, I would think. It's like the ruby slippers in the Wizard of Oz, you carry them around with you but they are of no use until you understand what they are all about. Nobody can tell you how to use them.

Just a few thoughts.

Rainbo1956 · 03-01-2005, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by WWC-DonMike

Madame, we definitely have more than 2 genders in the human race.

I would take this as a two part question, Rainbo. First, if your friend was married and you met a straight guy that you think she would really fall for, would you want to introduce them? Wouldn't that just cause undue stress on your friend making her rethink her marriage to the guy she's with? I think that is the real issue here.

If she is gay, then it's something she needs to figure out for herself, I would think. It's like the ruby slippers in the Wizard of Oz, you carry them around with you but they are of no use until you understand what they are all about. Nobody can tell you how to use them.

Just a few thoughts.

She and I are pretty close. She's told me that's she's very unhappy in her marrige...she's trying to sort out everything and is aready re-thinking her marriage.

I agree that if she is really a lesbian, that she has to figure that out herself.
But, if she doesn't even own ruby slippers...how can she figure out how to use them? You can look at men or woman and wonder, fantasize, deam about it or desire the life. But, if you don't know a soul that can intruduce you to this new world, what else can you do? Hit on someone you see in a shopping center?

I'm just saying, it wasn't untill a friend of mine that introduced me to my first gay lover, that I actually knew I was gay, and it was ok to be gay. I had never met anyone that was gay...though I knew since 12 years old, that I was differant, had crushes on boys in school. I never ever told anyone. Never thought I could tell anyone. I thought I could or should only date women. I had no tools to draw from. I had no ruby slippers, so to speak.
And, even if I had been married with children, I still would have had to come out...I would have had to been true to me.

But anyway, it happened yesterday. I had said nothing to her about what my friend and I talked about the other night.
She and I were sitting having brunch at her house when she asked me if I would take her out dancing this coming weekend. I said "sure hun"..."where do you want to go"? She said she didn't want to go to a straight club, and that she'd like me to take her to one of mine (I said "I don't own club...

")

Well, she asked if I could take her dancing to a gay club...I said "why"? All she did was grin at me and said because she wants to go dancing and NOT be hit on by any guys....then she said, "if ya know what I mean"!

Not knowing "exactally" what she meant. I asked if she wanted to go to a mostly men's place or did she want it to be a mix or what? She said "a mix".
I said "ya know, no one would hit on you since you'd be with me...duh". She just said back to me...."I'm just sick of f**king men"! I laughed and said, "but, I'm a man". Smacking me on the arm she says..."you know what I mean"

So in explaining this new deal to my friend, who I feel is homophobic...again his responce was that I am trying to break her marriage up and again asked why I would do that.

Now, if she were happy in her marriage and she asked me to take her out dancing I still would. And, she'd still meet lesbians, cause when she comes over, my sisters and my friends are here. So, I might still introduce her to a tall dark and handsom lesbian. What she does with all of it is up to her.
I will continue to support her in any decisions she makes (as long as they are healthy ones)

My friend acts like it's a crime to support someone that's married, that may (or my not) want to come out. Like it's a worse sin to come out if you're married. And, that a person should stay in it even though they're very, very unhappy.

He just doesn't understand where I am coming from as far as calling him homophobic. I say he is because it really seems to me that he thinks that her staying with a man/her husband, would be better for her then to find out she's a lesbian. He doesn't think I should take her to a gay club....I say why? He said it again...he thinks that I'll break up their marriage and their home...sheesh, I thanked him for ALL that power he thinks I have. And, again I asked him why he thinks it'd be so bad for her to find out she's gay? And, why would it be a bad thing if I introduced her to a single lesbian. She's the one who's going to make her own decisions and live her life.
He just says that she should stay in her marriage and I should stay out of it...I don't get it, I'm not "in" her marriage.

I believe that it's very ok to find yourself. To find out what you really want and to go for it in the healthiest way you can...and still take care of yourself.

I don't understand why some people think it's such a bad thing to be gay and needing to come out, be true to themselves finally ("people" being gay themselves)

Yes, coming out can be a very hard thing and can hurt some people that you love. But, in the end everyone ends up better off. If someone is living a lie and is unhappy....then everyone around them is miserable too.

Sorry this was so long. But, I find it a very interesting topic. I just like to be clear about my intentions. Also, I like feeback. So I can maybe have a better understanding of my male friends feelings and thoughts

**DonMike** · 03-01-2005, 01:55 PM

Rainbo1956, I think it's an excellent topic. I think a big issue here is that she is not happy in her marriage in the first place. And if the basis of this stems in the fact that she has lesbian desires, well maybe she needs to do her exploring, not saying she should sleep around or anything, but go out into the community and see what is out there. I think introducing her to your friend in order for her to get to know other lesbians is admirable. It's not like you're trying to set her up with a possible partner knowing she's married. But if you expose her to gay culture and it helps her realize she's gay, you're not breaking up a marriage because that marriage is not that stable to begin with.

Plus, she'll figure it out sooner or later. I guess I speak from my own experiences when I made the ruby slipper comment. I was in the process of coming out when a very militiant lesbian couple I was friends with tried to push me head first into the culture, making me feel like I had to give up everything I was and totally become something different and become totally gay. It freaked me out so much that I spend four more years in the closet. I was terrified of changing who I was and putting everything I had been in the past. The irony is that once I came out and was comfortable with myself and with being gay, I did change. Almost completely. But it needed to be on my own terms. So, I guess my biggest advise would be to take the girl to OZ and let her roam. She'll find out a use for those ruby slippers in no time.

robin · 03-01-2005, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rainbo1956

Ummm, is it just me or can anyone else see the homophobia in gay people as well?

I think that many gays are homophobic -- but I would add, that the ones that I percieve to be such tend to be in the closet.

Personally, I don't like "setting people up" on dates or such regardless of whether they're out, in, questioning... That kind of thing has always come back to bite me. Misguided blame, etc...

However, if someone is asking you to take them out to a bar or to some sort of social activity where people are predominately gay then that's another matter.

One of the best things that happened to me was when a "girlfriend" of mine started taking me to gay bars and drag shows. I still didn't come out for several years but she helped me realize that I was OK.

**basschick** · 03-01-2005, 10:17 PM

i think there is more than one issue going on here. first, a LOT of the gay people i know are more homophobic than a lot of straight folks i know.

if your friend is ready to move on, maybe she needs to end her current commitment (her marriage) before moving on. the issue i have with this isn't about married, straight or gay - it's about not confusing her family situation by bringing a bunch of lies into it.

lesbian isn't a lifestyle - it's a sexual preference first. lots of lesbians don't live the "lesbian lifestyle" but they ARE lesbians. does your friend find women romantically or sexually attractive?

btw, lots of actually straight women flirt with bi and lesbian women because they like the admiration, and they like to flirt, and it's safer with women than men. a lot of those women really ARE straight, and don't actually find anything appealing about the women they flirt with except the admiration they receive.

Madame0120 · 03-03-2005, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by basschick

btw, lots of actually straight women flirt with bi and lesbian women because they like the admiration, and they like to flirt, and it's safer with women than men. a lot of those women really ARE straight, and don't actually find anything appealing about the women they flirt with except the admiration they receive.

Because I socialize within the BDSM lifestyle I am a part of a pansexual community that for the most part is accepting of folks that are honest and follow the hallmark of Safe Sane and Consentual. What sexuality you claim rarely has any bearing on acceptance in our kinky society.

Oh my gay/bi girlfriends give me a rasher of shit all the time. But it’s all in good fun, and they know I’m a pretty good sport. LOL Some day I might freak them ALL flat out and take one of the gals up on a bit of fun. The flirting they do with me, is almost a game .. sorta like how the other Dominates want to spank my behind. THAT's really not gona happen.

But, from time to time we are graciously offered the Services of some lovely femsub for our mutual amusement and pleasure. Any guest in our Home, (specially if she's enamored with roy) gets all kinds of special attention. Because I am 50’s Trained and 70’s Kink'ed I strive to be the very best Wife/Hostess/Mistress.

Anyway. The crux of the matter for me is, I have no emotional attachments or deep sexual feelings towards Women. When playing with a fem, the excitement comes, for me, in the Direction and Control of the scene and the sexual interplay with my beloved subhub.

Being a heterosexual Woman is just my born nature – I figure by 50 I should have that clue memorized. Small experiments with loving Women throughout my adult life, left me empty and craving for broad shoulders and a hard Johnson (and I don't mean Doc). Or maybe it’s not so much that – I need the energy of a man. The very MANess of him makes me feel alive, protected and insulated.
Boy- Freud would have a field day with that statement! Do I sound like a gay man?

What makes me sad is when a Women feels she has to go against her true nature just to be able to live a sane life. I suppose if I had spent most of my adult life lorded over by some idiot slug of a man - or his clone, I'd be searching for the emotional safety and tender care another Woman offers. To feel whole again, I might turn from my true nature and cleave to a Woman.

We all have to find our own ways to make it through this hard life, don't we?

Rainbo1956 · 03-04-2005, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Madame0120

What makes me sad is when a Women feels she has to go against her true nature just to be able to live a sane life. I suppose if I had spent most of my adult life lorded over by some idiot slug of a man - or his clone, I'd be searching for the emotional safety and tender care another Woman offers. To feel whole again, I might turn from my true nature and cleave to a Woman.

We all have to find our own ways to make it through this hard life, don't we?

Very interesting perception. And yes, it is sad.
I'd have to say I agree because I know a woman that did just that. She had been in a few abusive relationships with men and, I suppose I'd say that she did seek out the emotional safety and tender care another Woman. They ended up being together for over 6 years. But, when the woman re-discovered that she was indeed straigh, she ended the relationship with her female partner. They remained friends (though, I always felt her lesbian partner was devistated)

Some years later, my fried found and married a wonderful, sweet, supportive man.

**DonMike** · 03-04-2005, 12:59 PM

I've really come to understand that our sexualiy is not all black and white. People may say this but I don't know how many truely understand it.

I can totally understand what Madame0120 is talking about. Being part of the BDSM community myself, I hang with everyone from the gay male only clubs, female only clubs, gay clubs, pansexual clubs, to straight clubs. I have a friend who's a het woman slave in a gay leather family. I know a lesbian who's found that her soul mate and life partner was destined to be male and they have a wonderful life together. I myself, consider myselt totally gay, am only interested in men (re Madame's whole 'Johnson' analogy), yet I've played with women before. S/M playing is on quite a different level than sex. Your back does not know gender of the person thowing a flogger, it only knows the feeling of the flogger itself. Does this make me bi? I don't really think so. I also think that a gay man can have sex with a woman to see what it's like (or a straight man with another man for that matter) and still be what they are made up to be. It's what's inside you, not the activities you engage in.

Sorry for rambling on like this, I just got on a tangent. LOL!

Madame0120 · 03-05-2005, 12:28 AM

I also think that a gay man can have sex with a woman to see what it's like.

Back in the day .. when anything you got infected with was easily fixed with a shot in the bum .. I educated several gay men.

LOL! Not a one of them was turned to the dark side ... I hope it wasn't my technique.

Rainbo1956 · 03-05-2005, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Madame0120

I also think that a gay man can have sex with a woman to see what it's like.

Back in the day .. when anything you got infected with was easily fixed with a shot in the bum .. I educated several gay men.

LOL! Not a one of them was turned to the dark side ... I hope it wasn't my technique.

Sheesh....then again I have no idea where you're coming from!