Interesting Thought...

[Lee]

Do you think programs such as the BelAmi, Falcon, and other 'studios' are mearly supplementing their income levels by offering their sites up for promotion in the adult industry or do you think that they are genuinely wanting to make a serious amount of income from the adult industry?

The thread i started about Nasty Dollars last night was what made me think of this, we have feedback about BelAmi being posted by webmasters but nobody from their program has responded as yet.

Do you think that if a studio has an affiliate program up and running they should be available to answer potential affiliates questions in the open as well as by email?

What are your thoughts on this?

Is it a good business practice if you have an affiliate program that you have a rep at least reading the boards even if they dont reply to the threads?

If they dont have reps answering questions on community forums, does this make you think twice about promoting them?

Regards,

Lee

[crescentx]

I take it as a business that has spent most of its lifespan offline, trying to evolve to what is going to be the bread and butter someday. Just as porn cinemas ceased to exist except for one, the industry has real potential to evolve to almost exclusively online - if for no other reason than discretion afforded the customer.

As far as reading boards, responding - well, sometimes yes, sometimes no. IBill responds a lot on GFY and that still doesn't put a wire transfer into my account for what they owe. Some aff programs get carried away and start holy wars this way. It's a mixed bag, and there's so many boards it is virtually impossible for a company to monitor them all.

The posts that affiliates can do, that I think make a difference in how they're perceived, are those that truly provide some education for other webmasters and affiliates.

-doug

[DigitalJay]

I'd rather work in a mom and pop store than a wal-mart, for mostly the same reason's I prefer smaller programs to these huge ones. I would rather be able to talk to a person or people who are passionate about the program, not just another employee for a huge company that mostly cares about numbers and bottom lines.

The main problem is that the individual webmaster will NEVER mean as much to these big companies as he/she does to a smaller affiliate program.

I think when an established company tries to put out a new program, they have just as much work to do to build a reputation and assure quality as any newcommers. If they don't cut it, they don't usually have the excuses of lack of resources or funds, so it can be a bit annoying.

[BDBionic]

Do you think programs such as the BelAmi, Falcon, and other 'studios' are mearly supplementing their income levels by offering their sites up for promotion in the adult industry or do you think that they are genuinely wanting to make a serious amount of income from the adult industry?

Yes and Yes. I don't think it's an either/or situation by default. I think they recognize and appreciate the value of the internet marketplace and the potential it holds and are actively engaged in developing their internet structure in to not only bigger but central parts of their businesses.

You make it seem like you can't run both a substantial video sales and mail order program in conjunction with a substantial online, membership based program and I simply disagree with that insinuation.

The thread i started about Nasty Dollars last night was what made me think of this, we have feedback about BelAmi being posted by webmasters but nobody from their program has responded as yet.

Do you think that if a studio has an affiliate program up and running they should be available to answer potential affiliates questions in the open as well as by email?

By my calendar, it's still March 8, 2005. I don't much appreciation this suggestion that some faulty and negligent attention is being paid on the part of Bel Ami to their affiliate webmasters because the points brought up in that thread have yet to be addressed. It's but a handful of hours after those posts were made. They've not sat unaddressed for days, ignored. I think you need to either make a greater effort to qualify the conclusions you're drawing and posting or be a bit more considerate of how your comments could come across before posting them.

I could Board Track Bel Ami with GWW and shoot in for a wham bam thank you spam response to posts people make about Bel Ami in here, as a great many sponsors do, or I could be an active member of this forum who makes it a regular part of their work day to come in to GWW and engage in discussions and interaction with the board members and who just hadn't yet happened to get around to that portion of their work day yet.

Boards are but one communications interface on this here internet. Perhaps because you run a board, your perception as to the role they play is a bit inflated. Is it wise and beneficial for people who wish to communicate and engage with their clients, affiliates and partners to participate in relevant discussion boards and forums? Sure. But boards are not the end all and be all of internet commerce and don't always paint a full picture of what's going on.

[crescentx]

I have to dissent. Users tend - for better or worse - tend to air troubles on the boards before they send an e-mail. So it is important for affiliate programs to monitor the main boards to that extent - to resolve problems/issues.

What I was trying to communicate - and perhaps I think Lee might also have been trying to - is that affiliate programs should <i>participate</i> in some boards. Something I try to do through offering support/suggestions/assistance.

-doug

[Lee]

By my calendar, it's still March 8, 2005. I don't much appreciation this suggestion that some faulty and negligent attention is being paid on the part of Bel Ami to their affiliate webmasters because the points brought up in that thread have yet to be addressed. It's but a handful of hours after those posts were made. They've not sat unaddressed for days, ignored. I think you need to either make a greater effort to qualify the conclusions you're drawing and posting or be a bit more considerate of how your comments could come across before posting them.

I could Board Track Bel Ami with GWW and shoot in for a wham bam thank you spam response to posts people make about Bel Ami in here, as a great many sponsors do, or I could be an active member of this forum who makes it a regular part of their work day to come in to GWW and engage in discussions and interaction with the board members and who just hadn't yet happened to get around to that portion of their work day yet.

Boards are but one communications interface on this here internet. Perhaps because you run a board, your perception as to the role they play is a bit inflated. Is it wise and beneficial for people who wish to communicate and engage with their clients, affiliates and partners to participate in relevant discussion boards and forums? Sure. But boards are not the end all and be all of internet commerce and don't always paint a full picture of what's going on.

Brian,

No need to get defensive dude i was mearly opening up a discussion on a topic so we can see how people feel about those types of scenarios.

I could quite easily have used topbucks, silvercash etc etc as the examples but as BelAmi was being discussed in another thread i chose to use them.

No need for you to get all defensive on us when it isnt needed

Regards,

Lee

[basschick]

i can't see how it would make a sponsor a less contributing community member to use boardtracker and answer questions that come up about their program. what if someone is having trouble getting hold of that sponsor? generally that gets posted on a board, so it couldn't hurt to track your program name.

i am an active member of several boards, and on every one, sponsor problems are posted - and sometimes answered. i always feel a little better about sponsors that keep track of these potential problems that crop up on boards.

in fact, the very first board i posted on was because of a sponsor who did not pay me. when he did not respond, i went to ask other webmasters about him - even though i had never been a poster before. it's the natural thing to do, i think...

[DigitalJay]

Very interesting thread. I don't think Lee was insinuating anything, he was playing devil's advocate. It makes sense for him to ask questions like these, and to find out if webmasters come to the types of conclusions you assume he is insinuating.

The best way to find out if webmasters heavily factor forum responses and response times, is to ask! If you have a webmaster board AND an affiliate program, it makes sense to wonder about people's opinions of the "big boys" in film crossing over, AND how people feel about them, AND especially how people feel about the way they interact with webmasters on webmaster boards, if and when they do.

[BDBionic]

Yeah, I did get defensive. BITCH, I'LL CUTCHU!!! 8)

My defensiveness went to the core of the questions you asked in this thread, though. The things we type on here are powerful words, seen by a lot of people. There should always be an appreciation for that, and the potential of things to come across in a number of ways, however harmless someone may believe their intentions to have been. I don't think people appreciate that enough, taking advantage of a board's reach when they want to make a splash and forgetting about it when they make a potential unjustifiably harmful post.

I've always felt people were too inclined to go running to boards to post stuff when the more reasonable and professional approach would have been to go directly to an individual contact point in the first place.

It's unfortunate that a big part of why so many people have to be so attentive to the boards is to engage in damage control when there shouldn't be any damage in the first place.

I'm not talking about valid points being raised on boards, objective solicitations for feedback or using boards as a last resort after many failed attempts to contact someone one on one or via email. When that happens, boards are definitely a great resource to go to not only to up the ante and encourage finally getting a response but air potential problems to others so that they can avoid them.

Yet at the same time a lot of people go immediately to a board and air stuff publicly when the professional thing to do would have been to go directly to the sponsor or person the thread's about. I have a number of theories as to why people do this. One is sort of the GFY-ish drama factor where they wanna fire up some controversy and provoke a response. Another is they like the attention and enjoy feeling like they're releasing some grand revelation or exposing some fantastic controversy or juicy tidbit of info. Another is that maybe they've been so screwed by people in the past they've come to rely on the boards and public exposure as the only way to assure a response or attention to their needs and concerns. Another is that they just don't understand the concept of discretion and professionalism. Who knows... maybe all those theories apply. Maybe none of them apply.

It's just always bugged me from day one in this industry having checked out the very first webmaster board I wandered on to and participated it a great many to this day that some are so prone to immediately running to the boards with stuff when they really should have kept the issue within a 2 point communication line.

That being said, I prefer one on one contact over board contact. I'd expect more honest answers via email than on a board and am able to engage in more open and honest discussion when neither party is concerned by who else may come across and read it. And I think the value of one on one communication and interaction is lost on a lot of people who rely too much boards.

Active board participation is just one avenue of interaction and one manner in which someone should be approachable.

I value the boards more as a proactive resource than reactive. Which is to say if I've built a relationship with someone on the boards, grown to respect their opinions and admire the things they say and see them around alot, talk to them alot, get to know them via the boards and at shows, I'd feel that much more comfortable going in to a business dealing with them. That's moreso the case for me than is being comforted by seeing a sponsor I'm trying out come along to a board and hang out after the fact.

Flip side of that is that I've seen a lot of people post on a lot of boards that I never wanna do business with on account of the things I've seen them post hehe.

As far as Falcon goes, I think 2 years ago they had not a clue what the hell they were doing with their affiliate program. Offering up 30% commissions or some such nonsense. They seem to be pretty active in looking to turn that around tho and set up an affiliate program that is at the very least competitive.

As far as Bel Ami goes, I can speak through personal experience as to how devoted they are to the online market place and their affiliate program. I'll be vague so as not to be spammy, but with the new VOD/PPV program upcoming, the affiliate stores/shopping carts soon to be released, the kinds of features and elements that'll be added to BelAmiCash (international transactions solutions, cascading billing, promo content, higher commissions, extensive webmaster tools and resources). Not to mention they pay me a fair amount of money to be approachable and accessible to webmasters working with the program, as many people here know - that they asked a board whore like me to work with them and their affiliates.

[basschick]

things seem to get taken care of on boards that programs put on hold otherwise. also it's good to find out if the problem is only happening to you or to everyone - especially a stats or payment problem.

and last, i can't see why a program that is open to the public to join should have private business. this isn't nasa - why should we be secretive?

honestly, i try email support or phone first, but most programs take their time getting back to you - so i post because maybe i'm worried or anxious or hope someone has a quick fix or an alternative way to contact the program i can't get hold of.