Fetish sites seem underdeveloped.

[Huskyhunks]

Why aren't there many fetish sites with large affiliate programs and original content, videos, etc ? Do you think the government of the u.s. has scared off webmasters. I know that there are successful fetish sites, but nothing really along the lines of Pridebucks, Randy Blue and the other "big boys". It would seem to me that this would be a great area for someone with enough capital or at least great original content to really sell some serious memberships.

Underwear, jockstraps, armpits, clothes on fucking, bruiser (bouncer types), even the bear/cub area seem to be underdeveloped in the original content area.

[Lee]

I recently heard a rumor we're going to be seeing a new sponsor arriving that pushes all the under-developed niches launching

Regards,

Lee

[Sana Chan]

Will the promote niches for Asain-loving fag hags like me? :goofy:

[mike-x]

we have two fetish sites :vanish:

[crescentx]

I think you'll see more fetish content once the political climate in this country changes. Too many people consider "gay" risky as it is. (I dare webmasters on this board to launch a tranny upskirt site :-)) Unfortunately by the time that happens, there will be a fairly established European competition in place. Another limiting factor is content. By and large if you are dealing with US photographers, getting fetish content for less well-developed niches is going to be difficult and quite expensive. If you can get past the language barrier, there is content in Europe for most every fetish - but that gets you right back into running the risk of being considered obscene by some Texas pastor.

-doug

[Lee]

Another limiting factor is content. By and large if you are dealing with US photographers, getting fetish content for less well-developed niches is going to be difficult and quite expensive.

Whilst i would agree that many content providers do tend to stick with the more over-saturated niches, twinks, ebony, asian, niches for their content i would also disagree that finding niche specific content is difficult and / or expensive.

We recently purchased a whole bunch of content for some under-developed niches and, while it wasnt difficult to find, it meant we had to look at what is currently on the market and 'spin' that content to our needs.

I think the problem, for most of the part, is that the larger affiliate program owners simply dont realize there is more to 'gay' than twinks, bears, ebony, asian etc, etc.

If you look at the content we do have to choose from from providers such as maxpixels for example, there are countless niches available in their catalogue that even the producer themselves havent considered.

How many times have we boght content of twinks with tattoos? Bears in leather? Hunk with piercings? the smaller undeveloped niches certainly do have a lot of content available for them, the challenge is finding a company or individual who is willing to look past the 'twink', 'bear', 'ebony', 'asian' or 'hunk' generic labels that many providers put on their sets.

There are some REALLY funky niches out there, you just have to 'look' beyond what a content provider tells us a sets niche is.

Regards,

Lee

[Dzinerbear]

Yes, I'm putting up a muscle bears gallery today, the guys are pierced and they're playing with dildos, whipped, cream, bananas, and cherries.

Yikes! The mind boggles are all of niches. I think I must be in heaven.

Cheers
Dzinerbear

[basschick]

Huskyhunks - mostly no one ever makes those sites to begin with. underwear would be a less legally risky site, not more. and clothes-on fucking is a niche that is appearing a little in str8 as cwnm (clothed women, named men).

i like working with smaller niches like these. they convert better, and although they're not for everybody, it's a lot easier to give your members what they want.

[Huskyhunks]

If I can add just a little more... it seems that the very first thing that gay men look for in each other, before anything else, is body size. I would say that age would be the second determining factor followed by race.

Let's take an underwear site. Not many twink lovers are gonna want to see big hairy guys in underwear and not many bear chasers are gonna want to see thin young hairless guys in underwear. It's tough to find the middle ground in this scenerio.

I would guess that in order for a fetish site to prosper along the lines of the bigger affiliate programs, it would have to be general enough (like underwear or military) and specific enough on body type (like bear, twink, ) to really connect with a large membership base.

[Lee]

Let's take an underwear site. Not many twink lovers are gonna want to see big hairy guys in underwear and not many bear chasers are gonna want to see thin young hairless guys in underwear. It's tough to find the middle ground in this scenerio.

Okay i see where you are coming from however, you seem to be missing the fact that guys (or gals) who are into 'underwear' really dont care as much as you would think about the models themselves, in fact, much like the 'sneaker' niche, the focus on such sites SHOULD be the underwear itself and NOT the guys wearing it, if you have ever seen a site done by a true lover of any niche, youll notice that 99% of the time their focus is on the object of their fantasy not the guy or girl wearing or playing with, that object

Regards,

Lee

[crescentx]

Okay i see where you are coming from however, you seem to be missing the fact that guys (or gals) who are into 'underwear' really dont care as much as you would think about the models themselves, in fact, much like the 'sneaker' niche, the focus on such sites SHOULD be the underwear itself and NOT the guys wearing it, if you have ever seen a site done by a true lover of any niche, youll notice that 99% of the time their focus is on the object of their fantasy not the guy or girl wearing or playing with, that object

Regards,

Lee

Speaking first hand, I disagree. For my personal tastes, a cute skateboarder-type twink in briefs or sneakers in going to get me a lot more interested than my auto mechanic dressed the same way. It's about the package - not just the "fetish." There's more to especially a sneaker or briefs niche than just what they're wearing. There's more even to it than the model - though that's important.

For example, people into Converse High-Tops if you want to get specific. This has all kinds of personal associations - could be just about anything and probably comes psychologically speaking of some great experiences on or about their "first time" - or even as far back as locker room days in school where they had a crush on the team captain who wore his black Chuck Taylors and kept them spotless. Or maybe it was their best friend who had a beat-up pair of sneakers, the friend they even to this day wish they'd tried to seduce...regrets, regrets. In either case, the niche turns them on best - or only - if other pieces of what is before them reinforce the fetish.

Doing fetish is very psychological - moreso than a regular paysite or even a niche. It's about understanding the fetish and I would argue about being attracted to it, I would argue, is imp. That's why we didn't continue pushing the bears or studs niche sites because I personally didn't understand well the niche, it wasn't my attraction, and I couldn't do it quality justice.

That's why I said - and perhaps didn't clarify - that the content would be expensive. Because if I created a niche site - and I've got several really great ones - making bank on the content production would be difficult, getting the right models even moreso....but if you're going to do something, it should be done right IMO.

-doug

[Huskyhunks]

In either case, the niche turns them on best - or only - if other pieces of what is before them reinforce the fetish...

Doing fetish is very psychological - moreso than a regular paysite or even a niche. It's about understanding the fetish and I would argue about being attracted to it, I would argue, is imp ... but if you're going to do something, it should be done right IMO.

-doug

I couldn't agree with you more. Fetish is about setting up and re-inforcing a psychological scenerio where that person can "tap" into to live out his or her fantasy. It's very difficult, maybe impossible to create that scenerio if you don't share the same passion for that particular fetish.

Having done fetish sites for so long, the sites that I feel a strong personal connection to always do better. But, I could do so much better if I shot the content myself and really developed the site to include member interaction and not just display content.

Members of the fetish community share strong bonds. If you are one of the few webmasters that actually "develop" a fetish site, you're members are likely to stay for a very long time. It involves so much more than posting images or videos and provocative text.

There really has to be a psychological connection, an addictive sexual synergy shared among the webmaster, content, and it's members. Once this type of sexually charged "atmosphere" is created, then a site can connect with the larger membership base just waiting to be satisfied.

I have yet to see a gay fetish site that brings this all together. It starts first and foremost with the webmaster. If a webmaster is not participating, the sense of community can never be developed to it's fullest potential. It is vital that a webmaster be present, visible, and engaged.

If the content is stock, it will never resonate to a potential member. This type of content, by definition, is created for the masses, it has "vanilla" stamped all over it. A fetish lover can see this a mile away. I'd say 99% of the fetish sites out there would fall into this category.

Gay surfers, especially fetish lovers, are extremely internet savvy. They have to dig, and dig, and dig more to find what they. They know what's out there, especially within your own special little deviant area. Good, and bad news travels fast within these communities. If you say your the real deal, you better be or you will never be taken seriously.

Being successful with a fetish site means knowing the area inside out. The prevailing thought is that webmasters these days have to survive by diversification. Well, I say that the worst thing a fetish webmaster could ever do.

Focus, focus, focus. It's all about finding out exactly what brings the surfer to the place where you can help make their fantasies as real as possible. I twink in a thong, and a super chub in a thong, are entirely a different thing. They are world's apart. The further you push the boundaries of body type, the task of setting up a sexually charged scenerio gets more difficult - probably exponentially.

It's no wonder that hardly anyone does this kind of site. The truth is, not many webmasters can find it within themselves to give what is required. It's takes much more energy, focus, money, and plain old PASSION !

[Huskyhunks]

Regarding the last post, there were some obvious errors in spelling and some words were omitted. I apologize for that. My partner was hurrying me out the door and I didn't get to proofread the post :whip: I hope you're able to understand the main ideas that I was trying to express and forgive me for the obvious errors.

[Marc]

I think having fetish sites just opens you up to be challenged legally.
Ars used to have 2 fetish sites, Dark Obsessions and See Me Pee, and they dropped them both because fetish is in that gray area.
I have people submitting pee and fisting galleries to me every now and then and I would love to list them, but I have to reject them. its just not worth the risk.

Its pretty sad because to many of us as gay people, fetish is no big deal like it would be to straight people. Leather, dungeons, slings, bondage, flogging, ff, is pretty vanilla to many of us,

[Huskyhunks]

Marc, I see your point and it makes alot of sense. Why take the risk ?

For my situation, I think I will wait until the outcome of the Extreme Associates case. If they can't pin them down, they can't prosecute anyone. If the Attorney General wins, then they are test case for the rest of us.

If Extreme Associates ultimately wins their case, then I will go ahead with my plans for raunchier content, but I guess you never know who's going to object and make your life miserable.

Things are getting so generic. No wonder sales are down for most webmasters. Nothing new or out of the mainstream has gotten the attention of surfers, or even webmasters, for a while now. The fear of being behind bars is real and valid. Until then, surfers will probably go back to cruising the streets and bars instead of the internet.