Do I make the leap or give up?

kunik · 03-27-2005, 12:18 AM

Hey all, I am new here and only recently found this resource but would love to get some advice without causing too much of a ruckus or offending anyone.

I would like to start with some history. I stared my online experience in the 1980's with a BBS where I carried gay photo's for others to download/upload. In January 1999 I launched my internet site and basically did the same thing and I had like 45 images. Well it's now 2005 and I have over 7000 images all categorized by subject. I have always been picky about what I would display and always demanded high image quality. It's always been a free site and I carry no advertising, pop-ups, and banners etc and I am amazed how folks even find the website since I refuse to do reciprocal linking to get on gay weblistings etc. Heck there are even domain names now that are similar to mine just to catch my traffic when folks misspell my url and redirect them to pay sites

Well I am a victim of my own success which has surprised me as I have tried to keep a low profile I now have 9500+ registered active users and over 150GB of outbound traffic consistantly each month and I am to the point where I can no longer afford to keep shelling out the money to maintain a free site but I also know that if I started "charging" for the content that I would raise the hackles of a number of the larger pay sites that currently allow me to do what I do since I don't charge anyone.

So I guess I have to make a decision or I need some one who can point me in the right direction on a way I can become "legit" or I guess I could just sell my domain name and move on, or just shutdown.

I am really perplexed on where to go with my domain as I like it's simple elegant look and I don't want to become like the 1000's of other pay gay websites I have seen (again I am not trying to offend anyone).

Any advice?

**Tristin** · 03-27-2005, 01:00 AM

First off where did your content come from? Do you own the rights to it? Do you have model releases? Cuase if you start to charge those issues will come up.

desslock · 03-27-2005, 01:11 AM

Kunik:

Don't charge for your content, if the Free-Website formula has worked for you so far. In fact, that is not in my business model for my websites either, but I am making a living from my websites.

Instead, promote products and services with their affiliate programs. This means you put ads and links to products or paysites that you think your readers will pay for, and you will make (in the adult market) a very large commission.

It also costs you nothing, As opposed to starting a membership website. You have none of these expenses to take money for memberships, and you will not lose any traffic because you are now charging.

If you want to make a living with your websites, you certainly need not set up a "paysite" --- you have a wide variety of options. I suggest that you read through all the materials on this board. In fact you can start with some of the programs that many of the other users on here promote.

That is how I found many of the ones that I currently use. So, are you sitting on a goldmine?

And welcome aboard!

Steve

kunik · 03-27-2005, 01:11 AM

Content has come from user uploads, message forums, newsgroups etc. I understand that if I went "pay" that I would need to remove all of what I had and start from scratch in order to avoid getting in trouble. My advantage I guess is that my domain name already gets lots of traffic and if I did this right I would still generate some buzz I hope

I am willing to do that if I can find some way to to keep the site looking elegant and more of an erotica site vs a porn site I guess

jonjayw · 03-27-2005, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by kunik

Content has come from user uploads, message forums, newsgroups etc. I understand that if I went "pay" that I would need to remove all of what I had and start from scratch in order to avoid getting in trouble. My advantage I guess is that my domain name already gets lots of traffic and if I did this right I would still generate some buzz I hope

I am willing to do that if I can find some way to to keep the site looking elegant and more of an erotica site vs a porn site I guess

Sorry, regardless of what you may think -- there are no public domain gay porn (or any other) pictures on the net you can borrow!! Just saying ". . . if it's yours tell me and I'll take it down." doesn't cut it if the copyright owner wants to enforce his/her rights. Whether or not you're charging anyone to view what content you're displaying isn't the point. What you've got is stolen goods. If you're operation gets too big, someone's going to get upset (not about your size but about your use of their content). With the membership volume you've got you shouldn't give up . . . just change your content sources.

Based on your prior comment, I'd assumed you were using some free content from pay sites, with their approval. It's a common content source for free sites. That type content is perfect for the approach desslock mentioned -- as you'd be presenting samples (pictures and video clips) with links to the source site. If your surfer likes what he sees, he can join the site you're promoting and you'll earn a commission. Do this for a number of sites that offer the type content you and your members already like. Then, reinvest some of that income (above and beyond your operational expanses) in purchasing some unique content. With the right approach, you should be able to keep your members happy with good content, maintain free access and start making money.

We've got over 400 sites in our Directory of Gay Pay Site Sponsors. Where possible we've noted if they provide free content (and sometimes which kind: pictures and/or video clips). There's also sections on Gay Content providers and Gay Video/Feed providers for when you can/want to do your own thing.

**basschick** · 03-27-2005, 03:01 AM

you can put up a few banners and text links for products you think your surfers will be interested in. adult dating, penis enlargement, etc. you can find paysites with especially good deals for your members.

your content is illegal, and you don't know for a fact that all the pics are of people over 18. a mature 16 year old can easily look 22. you might have ex boyfriend pics or pics that were only supposed to be for private viewing.

if i were you, what i would do is start replacing the content i had gradually with sponsor content - the best i could find! there is some good stuff out there, from virtually unknown sponsors. then on each pic page, you could have a small link to the sponsor. this would allow you to make some money and still offer plenty of free content.

**gaybucks_chip** · 03-27-2005, 04:04 AM

You've gotten some great advice from people. Back in 1995 and 96, there were tons of sites with "borrowed" content, often scraped off of newsgroup postings, and many of them managed to survive for a while. But not any more. If a content owner has registered its images with the copyright office, I believe the statutory penalty for use of a single image (whether or not you charge for access) is somewhere around $10,000 PER IMAGE. So if someone wants to be a dick, they could bankrupt you overnight. Although most content owners will just send you a cease-and-desist order, you can't count on that, and if they decide to go after, there's not much you can do. The "It was on the 'net, so I thought it was public domain" argument won't stand up for a second.

And the 2257 issues can't be ignored either. Some say that the Bush justice department, if/when it starts taking action against online adult content, will start with TGP and free sites since arguably those are the most accessible by minors. TGPs, at least, can argue they aren't actually hosting the content. But if the images are on your server, you're dead meat if the Feds come knocking.

The good news is you have a ton of traffic and a large number of loyal viewers. You can slowly (or abruptly, but I'd vote for slow if your intestinal fortitude is adequate) remove your unlicensed content and replace with sponsor galleries, and you can start placing attractive banners for sponsor sites, and convert your cash drain into a revenue generator.

The other thing that no one has mentioned so far is bandwidth. In today's marketplace, 150 gigs of bandwidth is not a lot and shouldn't be very costly to you if you shop around. You have to be a little careful because there are too-good-to-be-true deals like 500 gigs for $25/month, but there are a number of decent providers with reliable, redundant bandwidth that can help you out. (We do all of our own server admin, which saves us a lot of $ -- support is the most expensive part of hosting -- and we pay about $100/month for dedicated, unmanaged servers with 1200 gigs of bandwidth.) Also, at that level of use, depending on how your site is put together, you'll probably want a dedicated server as opposed to a shared one... but that's something you can work out.

Hope that helps!!

**Chilihost** · 03-28-2005, 12:55 AM

you really have to get legal before you get into problems, and quick!!! either that or sell it off for the domain name value only.

cheers,
Luke

CashAddict · 03-28-2005, 05:59 AM

If I broke into your house and stole your stuff, would it bother you more if I gave it away free to people or if I sold it to them? Or would you just care that I'd stolen your stuff?

Good content is expensive to produce. It's not fair to just take people's work and use it on your own sites.

If it's self-pics and they submit it, that's fine. But pro stuff doesn't become "fair game" just because you download it from newsgroups or whatever.

**basschick** · 03-28-2005, 06:29 AM

CashAddict - it's not fine to use self-pics on a website. for one thing, it's illegal unless the people submitting them are sending i.d. and a signed modeling release. it's a big fat fucking felony with a serious sentence attached.

for another thing, the "self" pics may be pics of someone's married lover or ex boyfriend used without their knowledge or consent - the pics could be of someone underage. or they could be professionally shot amateur content, and therefore the property of someone else.

self-pics may be fun to look at, but there is no way to know what age the model is or whether they were willing to have the pics put online.

ya can't beat using legal content with i.d. to protect you and a modeling release to protect you AND the models who might be unwilling.

CashAddict · 03-28-2005, 06:36 AM

You're right, basschick.

I was thinking more of the www.dudesnude.com type system where self pics are submitted and verified, and a site is built around people's profiles.

**basschick** · 03-28-2005, 07:03 AM

just curious - how do they verify self pics?

*knock knock*

hello, ma'am. is sexybigcock at home? your husband? oh, how about that... can we talk to him? thanks...

hello, sir. are you sexybigcock? what? why are you whispering? you don't want your family to know? oh, okay. can you possibly show us your drivers license, and let us take a peek at your computer monitor to prove you are indeed our user sexybigcock?

why, sir - i'm shocked. such language!

**ponyboy** · 03-28-2005, 08:11 AM

Kunik
What is the web address?
Lets face it people have been taking content from pay sites, news groups and e-mail groups for years and making good money off of it. I know I post now and then to the groups and hope if anyone uses the pictures on their sites they don’t remove the watermark.
But the bottom line is the pictures are stolen; with out permission of the web site owner, that’s the bottom line.
Well all pay dearly for the content on our sites, from content brokers or shooting the content ourselves. We spend tons of money for the content. Also don’t for get the bill for the hosting company to.
Kunik
“Content has come from user uploads, message forums, newsgroups etc. I understand that if I went "pay" that I would need to remove all of what I had and start from scratch in order to avoid getting in trouble.”
As far as I see it you are all ready in some kind of trouble using content that you don’t have the rights to, and not to leave out the paper work that goes along with the 2257.
Jonjayw
Is so right when he wrote, “Whether or not you're charging anyone to view what content you're displaying isn't the point. What you've got is stolen goods. If you're operation gets too big, someone's going to get upset (not about your size but about your use of their content). With the membership volume you've got you shouldn't give up . . . just change your content sources.”

My advice is get sponsors, affiliate program you can stay free and make some money at the same time. Plus get tons of legal content along the way.
You might look into www.puppycash.com

CashAddict · 03-28-2005, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by basschick

just curious - how do they verify self pics?

They give users a unique username and a page you can print out, and then you have to send a few pictures of yourself holding up a print out of that page.

It's not 100% foolproof, but I guess it's as close as you can get unless the webmaster goes to visit everyone who submits pics, which could be fun. I volunteer to check people who submit to the "hung" category!