A "Newbie" forum.....?

[Rainbo1956]

I find that when people flirt with one another here, it seems they get more attention (from business to play). Bec and the other beautiful women here are excluded because, being that they are either straight women or lesbians, the pressure is off. And I love em just the same!
(Maybe I didn't word this right, soooo, don't get all jiggy with me because of it...I'm only throwing stuff out here as I feel/think right now...still LOVE most everyone here!)

Being a gay man that tries to become a member here in "good standing", well, I've found that it's been very, very hard to become "part of the total board" unless you "know" someone or know them from FL, NV conventions, etc...

I've seen some members come in for the first time and receive the warmest welcome...why? Because they've been to the xxxconventions and "know" many of the webmaster members of the "gay webmasters community" already. That's cool, but, why not welcome everyone with the same and shout out a "special hello" to the one's you already know....then don't forget about them (the "new" ones)

Where as, I've seen some come in for help and they leave because they've had a hard time feeling like they're "fitting in".

Most everyone here is very warm and welcoming...it's why I stay a member. I'm just wanting to offer some sugestions about welcoming new people who do not know all the folks here and haven't "met them in person" ...or flirted with them "online" or been to FL or Vegas.

Sugestion....Start a newbie forum or a thread for the new people who are feeling they want to start a new gay site/sites.

There are so many talented people out there that could give back to our community so much. As well as so many here that want to help the new webmasters (at times they seem few and far between) unless someone is known or at least has "met" someone from here or where ever).

I had a person that I thought had the greatest designs. Very unique and fantastic designing. They seemed like a very wonderful person...their sites rocked, she had fantastic straight sites and she wanted info on how to make gay sites because they were thinking about doing that...and they should because they're sites rocked...she rocked in my perception...but, I feel she didn't think she fit in here (no one really communicated with her much in her post). So, she left here (i.e., I haven't seen her post here anymore...and, she isn't the only one I'm talking about. I KNOW she would have had wonderful gay sites and fit in here well!

This is only my own observation (however, I have been asked by a few webmasters why they're not feeling welcomed here)...I myself haven't felt too left out. But, then again I'm a "forward" type person and could give two shits about how anyone feels about me. I'm not into the conventions, I don't go out to the bars, I don't make "online" friends-business or otherwise, brunch, lunch and or otherwise....still, I come to this board to meet people that are in the biz, chat, to explore all avenues, and to keep alert to what's happening in this end of the biz...that's about it. Making friends online...well...I have my other opinions about that as well.

[DonMike]

Excellent post, Rainbo1956.

I think we often try to make everyone feel welcome here, I always try and post in the "I'm new here" threads. I think the one thing that we do, and I'm sure people on other boards do as well, is that we are a little guarded until we are certain that the new people are really here to meet others, contribute and be part of things. Often on message boards you will have those who post drive by spam, or one sentence posts just to get their sig seen. I think it takes effort on both parts. Once a person answers a number of posts and lets people know they are interested in being involved, others will warm up to them. When you already know someone from the industry or the shows, you already have a feeling that they will most likely be involved, so it's easier to let them in.

I see this in my leather clubs. People will come once or twice to see what everything is about, and you try to make them feel welcome and spend a lot of time and effort making them feel at home and they just dissapear. So you start to feel like you don't want to put out the effort until you get an idea if they will be around a little while. It's the same way on the boards. But maybe we need to meet the newbies with a little more enhusiasm and that will keep them around.

Here's another idea. You had said your friend posted here and did not feel welcome, why not introduce her and let people know that she is a friend of yours and that she does great work? That way, we have an idea that this person will want to be part of things.

Once again, feedback is always good, and even negative feedback is good because it gives you a chance to learn what you may need to work on.

[Scorpio]

Well, i understand your point of view Rainbo1956 but quite frankly, i'm not going to welcome with BIG open arms every new members. I don't know them! And I thought we were doing a very good job everytime replying to every "i'm new here" thread. But like any other situations, i have to know the person better, in this case, the person would have to make a few posts before i take interest in him or her.

We've seen so many new members who just sign up to spam... so i'm not gonna waste my time posting a long welcome post not knowing what are the real intentions of that person are. For me, i think a nice and short welcome message is better than nothing

I also didn't know that the women from the board were feeling excluded?!
If so, well i appologize to them. I reply to everybody equally, no matter they're gay, straight, lesbians, japanese... and i never noticed regular members excluding them also... Someone corrects me if i'm wrong.

One thing for sure is that if new members are not really trying to be part of this community, then i surely won't help them feel more welcome here. They kinda have to earn it, no? Posting more, replying more, being more active... And not just say "hi i'm new here" and then we should big the biggest friends ever. Nah i'm gay, not a teletubby

Now about the designer you were talking about... what happened? Tons of people here are looking for good designers so i'm sure she'd be noticed if she posted more. So maybe she should come back and retry

But that's just me, i'm not a really sociable person at the first place so maybe i'm all wrong who knows


And maybe a newbie forum is not a bad idea.

[Lee]

i'm gay, not a teletubby

You say that like they are supposed to be mutually exclusive

Regards,

Lee

[Scorpio]

Well if you know someone who's gay and is a total moron, then i guess those 2 words can be together. That's what it says in my personal dick-tionnary.

If i were to welcome new members with BIG open arms and BIG love, not even knowing them, then i'd be a teletubby.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

[Lee]

I find that when people flirt with one another here, it seems they get more attention (from business to play). Bec and the other beautiful women here are excluded because, being that they are either straight women or lesbians, the pressure is off. And I love em just the same!

People flirt on here? Where do i get some of that action, ive been missing out :eek:

On a serious note though, i know exactly what you mean however, when our community members flirt with one another it is because they have become friends, they know the boundaries that each of us has and generally speaking dont cross them, i know ive had conversations with Bec and Basschick of the board and on where i have been playful with them.

Being a gay man that tries to become a member here in "good standing", well, I've found that it's been very, very hard to become "part of the total board" unless you "know" someone or know them from FL, NV conventions, etc...

Again i do see where you are coming from and yes to a point i would agree that putting a face to a name is a great way to build a friendship. That being said, we have community members here who i have never personally met that i still work, play and do business with, the thing is, they actually took the time to become involved in the GWW community, as Scorpio mentioned above, we have a lot of people joining and leaving after making one or two posts, spam or not, that isnt really enough time for anyone to get to know the poster especially if the posts were promoting the individual and / or program that community member works for.

I've seen some members come in for the first time and receive the warmest welcome...why? Because they've been to the xxxconventions and "know" many of the webmaster members of the "gay webmasters community" already. That's cool, but, why not welcome everyone with the same and shout out a "special hello" to the one's you already know....then don't forget about them (the "new" ones)

Speaking for myself, i know any new member gets greeted the same by me, whether i know them or not, i even start threads welcoming all of our newest community members and extend to them an invite to tell us about themselves, more often than not though, this invitation goes unanswered, there is only so much any of us can do to welcome a new community member to GWW.

Where as, I've seen some come in for help and they leave because they've had a hard time feeling like they're "fitting in".

Yep ive seen that happen too and it is unfortunate however, at the same time, as mentioned above, there is only so much any of us on GWW can do to welcome new members if the new members arent willing to converse with us in return Im sure you'll agree that we are a friendly and helpful bunch (with a couple of exceptions ) and are more than willing to offer help and advice to anyone that asks for it but, at the same time, its a two way street, we dont know how to help someone if they dont ask us

Most everyone here is very warm and welcoming...it's why I stay a member. I'm just wanting to offer some sugestions about welcoming new people who do not know all the folks here and haven't "met them in person" ...or flirted with them "online" or been to FL or Vegas.

You know i addressed this above but, again, i must say that when someone joins, speaking personally, i dont care whether i have met them at a show or not, they get greeted the same way id greet anyone for the first time and there are a few people who post on GWW that i only met myself for the first time at the Vegas show this January.. Im sure they will tell you they were overwhelmed with how welcoming both Gary and Myself made them feel.. As if we had known them for life.

Sugestion....Start a newbie forum or a thread for the new people who are feeling they want to start a new gay site/sites.

In all honesty, a few years ago we did have a new webmaster forum however, it didnt get any posts and became unproductive, the general forum imho is the place to go on GWW for anyone, gay, straight, male, female, newbie or not, i think everyone gets treated with the respect they deserve to be treated with irrespective of whether they are asking about gay market issues or staight.

There are so many talented people out there that could give back to our community so much. As well as so many here that want to help the new webmasters (at times they seem few and far between) unless someone is known or at least has "met" someone from here or where ever).

Again i have to respectfully disagree. I have seen new community members make one post and get given the milk and the cow in the responses they have received and, at the same time, i will admit i have also seen people make a first post and they havent received any help because it wasnt clear what they wanted help with.

I had a person that I thought had the greatest designs. Very unique and fantastic designing. They seemed like a very wonderful person...their sites rocked, she had fantastic straight sites and she wanted info on how to make gay sites because they were thinking about doing that...and they should because they're sites rocked...she rocked in my perception...but, I feel she didn't think she fit in here (no one really communicated with her much in her post). So, she left here (i.e., I haven't seen her post here anymore...and, she isn't the only one I'm talking about. I KNOW she would have had wonderful gay sites and fit in here well!

Again, just to reiterate, we can only communicate so much on a given subject, words in a post are fine, if thats all that someone is looking for but, to be able to give someone SOLID advice takes time, especially when it comes to design related issues.. Im the first to admit i know squat about design related issues but ill offer an open, honest review of anyones work if its asked for, sometimes its making sure that the right questions are asked in addition to making sure the right answers are given

This is only my own observation (however, I have been asked by a few webmasters why they're not feeling welcomed here)...I myself haven't felt too left out. But, then again I'm a "forward" type person and could give two shits about how anyone feels about me. I'm not into the conventions, I don't go out to the bars, I don't make "online" friends-business or otherwise, brunch, lunch and or otherwise....still, I come to this board to meet people that are in the biz, chat, to explore all avenues, and to keep alert to what's happening in this end of the biz...that's about it. Making friends online...well...I have my other opinions about that as well.

First off, im glad you arent feeling left out however, to those that do feel left out, unless we know about it, we cant do anything to rectify the situation, any tool is only as good as the individual using it, that goes for a hammer, a car or a community such as GWW.

I would also like to say that we have just recently started our weekly site review threads and IMHO that is a great way for someone new to the biz especially the gay market to get the BEST type of feedback possible so far, the sites that have been reviewed, from what i understand have made the changes that were suggested and benefited from them.

Its unfortunate that some people do feel left out of our community and i really can sympathize with the however at the same time, if they feel left out after only making one or two posts, they simply havent given our community members a chance to get to know them. A community such as GWW is a two way street, you have to give in addition to taking.

Great thread BTW

Regards,

Lee

[Xstr8guy]

Personally, I only reply to threads when I feel like I can add something constructive or humorous.

I never reply to "shout out" and "new here" threads when the person doesn't say anything that I care to comment on. Maybe I'm just a jerk, . :honest:

[dirtygeek]

We all know what it’s like to be the new person on the block, and we do, for the most part, try to welcome them. However it takes 2 to tango. We can only do so much to make them feel welcome and part of the group.

I have gone out of my way to meet and help countless new members to any number of chat boards, but 90% of them tend to shy away or just completely leave shortly after saying “hello I’m new”. I really wish more new people would hang around and chat more on the board. I can never have too many friends, and I’m always up for a good conversation about pretty much anything.

Hmmm, maybe Lee and Gary should send fruit baskets to new members…?

[Dzinerbear]

I think the response a person gets here when they either just say "hi" or asks a question has to do with a number of factors, but timing seems to be one of the biggest.

I have found that if I post on a Friday night or any time on the weekend, the post will flop. Why? It seems to me that a great many people here just aren't around of weekends. If I post the same thing at 10 or 11 am on a Monday morning, it can soar and get 30 replies. If you make a new post just around the time the weekly bulletin is being e-mailed, your post will pick up a lot of traffic from non-regulars.

Likewise, if you post during a week when everyone is insanely busy, it'll seem like you're being ignored. This week will be particularly bad because so many people will be away at the conference in Phoenix.

And I find that sometimes you need to be tenacious and bump your own post with a "Hello, is anyone out there."

And finally, if the wrong person responds to one of your posts with one of their snarky two snaps and a bag of chips replies, then, if you don't have a thick skin, you may just get the wrong impression and leave.

Cheers
Dzinerbear

[HotMaleVideos]

As a newbie myself, I know where Rainbo is coming from. This forum is very "mature" in the sense that a lot of the regulars are pretty advanced. This was intimidating to me. Everybody that legitimately wants to learn wants to be accepted and in the good graces of the folks that have been around. But at the same time, I know I also have to work at it too. I can't say that I am Mr. Social, or an expert, so I tend to pick my spots. That could be confused as not "fitting in." But I'm still learning, so I think it's only proper to sit back and watch a bit. It's up to me to stay engaged.

Submitting my site for the weekly site review was two-fold. Primarily, of course, to get constructive feedback (which has been invaluable, by the way. I've made changes and am working on others.) And the second motive was to be able to say, "Hey, I'm here, check me out." It's excellent for newbies, even if they're only new to the forum. They can get themselves and their work spotlighted.

<-- putting a mug to my words probably doesn't hurt either. (at least I hope not!)

[basschick]

Rainbo1956 - some of the most helpful people i've met in our industry are on this board. was your friend at all friendly when she posted here? bec is the kindest person i know, and lee loves to greet people - he's a born host. i can't imagine someone being virtually ignored unless they were very brief or asked about something no one knew. even then, generally we hear from a few members.

i have never felt excluded here, even when i was new. maybe part of the reason is that i don't expect to suddenly be made a part of things where people don't know me... i make a few posts on various topics till people get to know what i'm about. just a thought.

can you link us to your friend's thread or threads by doing a search on her username?

thanks!

[Mamakity]

I am not sure that I can offer anything other then my own experience on this thread but I suppose that will do.

Rainbow, you said, very, very hard to become "part of the total board" unless you "know" someone or know them from FL, NV conventions, etc...
It sucks to feel as though your not completely in the loop until your in the loop and wish you weren't. LOL I learned that lesson about 2 years ago and since then I've been loopless and happy. hehe Let me just add, that's not saying that that this board is anything like what I experienced 2 years ago.

When I came over to GWW I didn't know anyone. Sure, I knew some of the names from other boards but being new to webmaster stuff in general I didn't personally know anyone and noone knew me. I was warned that I may not be received well because I was a woman pushing porn to gay men. Which was thought to be a double wamy, 1) I am a woman 2) not a gay man owned site. But I found the warning was based on a rumor. It could also be that it is absolutely true but that I'm just naive. LOL Frankly though if it is that I'm naive, perfect because I stuck around long enough to gain some great lasting friendships.

As far as the biz part, the people here who I call my colleagues don't care about my gender or sexual orientation and really no businesspeople should care about that. True, not being a gay man impares my ability to market effectively to potential customers but not one of you have ever stood in my path to knock me down for it. Instead, you've walked beside me and taught me a thing or two or in some cases dozens of things.

About the flirting...would someone please flirt with me!!! It makes my husband jealous and then he pays extra attention to me. LOL

Lastly, my personal apologies to any new or old webmasters that I have not introduced myself to lately. I've had some major health issues the last couple months and unable to be here. But I'm back. Ok, enough thread jacking.

Missed you! :kiss:

[Dzinerbear]

Mike,

I think your assessment of the board is fairly accurate.

I found this board in the summer of 2003 and I found the reception lukewarm, so I disappeared for a few months. Then I popped back because I basically needed help. I had lost my job in March of 2003 and I was trying to get my first adult site launched. My husband was going to lose his job any time. So I came back here, developed a thick skin, and just thought, "I'm going to keep bugging the shit out of these people until they make me a part of the gang."

I saw something in the people on this board that I hadn't seen elsewhere. I knew I could learn from them, I knew the majority of them were good people. So, I just stuck it out and kept asking questions. The people here were polite and answered my questions. But overall, it was several months before I started to feel like I was a part of this board.

I don't think the people here were cliquey or snobbish. I think what you said about this board having a fairly mature crowd is correct. There are a lot of people here who have been in this business for a long time. And equally, there are a lot of busy people here who don't have time to waste on people who aren't serious about this business. That's what I saw anyway.

Once I had put some time in here and people saw that I was working hard and I was coming here on a daily basis, then they warmed up to me. We get a lot people stopping by here with dollar signs in their eyes posting, "I'm here to make my million." Or those straight webmasters, "Hey, I figured it's time to break into the gay niche, so what sells?" Those people generally get a lukewarm response and for the most part they don't stick around.

Mike, all I can tell you is that you're doing exactly the right thing. You're here, you're posting, you're persistent, and you put your site up in the review post. Continue doing that. When you see a post and you think you have something to add, post it. Don't worry about whether you think you have the right answer, and don't feel intimidated, or feel it and post anyway.

Keep sharing and keep asking and I think things will begin to feel more comfortable. Again, I don't think it's anything personal, regulars here are just busy and want to know the time they spend with people is going to be worthwhile. That's the way I see it anyway.

Cheers
Dzinerbear

[Gary-Alan]

Mike,

I think your assessment of the board is fairly accurate.

I found this board in the summer of 2003 and I found the reception lukewarm, so I disappeared for a few months. Then I popped back because I basically needed help. I had lost my job in March of 2003 and I was trying to get my first adult site launched. My husband was going to lose his job any time. So I came back here, developed a thick skin, and just thought, "I'm going to keep bugging the shit out of these people until they make me a part of the gang."

Michael,

I've read your reference to your reception back then a couple of times and I want to go back to your earlier comments about 'timing'.

The tone of GWW is so much better today, but when you joined the frey it was a VERY bad year for me. They only good thing that happened for me back then was Lee and his hands were tied when it came to GWW.

So, just for the record.. you're timing (on a larger scale) wasn't good ; )

My Best,
Gary-Alan

[Gary-Alan]

Hey Rainbo!

How's it going?

I've heard similar comments, before and I totally understand where you're friend is coming from. And being one of the oldies here (Hell I'm the original here HAHAHAHA) we have had tons of people come in ask the proverbial "what sells?" and then the vanish.

I'm not going to reiterate what the others have said here (beyond what I've already done). The group has made every point I would make. And, they've done it far better than I could.

Take a look at the thread Radical Rick started http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ead.php?t=8661 If that's not a way to get to know people, then DANG! LMAOPIP

I hope your friend gives us another try. I'm sure there was no intentional snub going on. I beleive that 'timing and participation' will most likely be the cause of any ill conceptions. And yes, we ARE that predictable when it comes to work load LMAO

My best,
Gary-Alan