Gay Market Saturation? Your Thoughts On This?

[Lee]

Just wondered what you all thought about the gay market place is going to pan out over the next few years?

Im personally of the opinion that we are going to start seeing a huge push by many straight owned companies and individuals to grab their peice of the gay surfer pie.

I also think this can be attributed to the fact that many webmasters have abused the surfers on the straight side of the industry for to long whilst, it would seem, for the most part, gay companies and individuals tend to focus more on giving their surfers a quality product.

Would you say that was an adequate evaluation of whats going to start happening over the next few years or do you think something els is going to happen?

Regards,

Lee

[tombarr]

Hi Lee

I personally think that the adult internet market will not be recognizable from what it is today due to advances in technology and changes in user patterns and tastes.

I already see larger companies trying to abuse the gay market, not only in generic main market type of sites, but even in smaller niches. I'll cite examples such as XXX when they were doing a gay asian front end with their Youngasianboys site, as well as another company with Bangkokbangers, which is presently doing the same thing, throwing traffic at a tour in the gay market, hoping to cash in on some of the revenue, but taking gay surfers to be idiots by giving them not the niche membership they signed up for, but a generic content membership area that is not even close to resembling the promises in the tours.

I also think that due to changes yet unforseen in the marketplace, we may see even more consolidation in the industry among processors, providers and webmasters. As it is now, it is harder for the small guy to get started than it was back in 97, or 98 due to changes in the climate. Future changes, certain to be attempted, and possibly even enacted, will most likely shrink the pool of smaller webmasters even more..... thus leaving the market open to those with money to throw at it.

In the short of it, yes, i see that those in the money and able to withstand the changes in market climate will be the ones to determine what the surfers get to see in the years to come, and unfortunately, if some of the sites put forth today from these companies are an indication of what is to come, i believe that the emphasis will indeed be less concerned with content to the surfer and giving him a valuable experience, and instead will be simply corporate "numbers" driven drivel.

JMHO

Tom

[Lee]

but taking gay surfers to be idiots by giving them not the niche membership they signed up for, but a generic content membership area that is not even close to resembling the promises in the tours.

Yeah i know what you mean about 'generic' members areas however, i cant help but think...

On the PPS business model, which is what these large programs rely on for traffic, do you think they are actually bothered about the surfer or the webmaster? I know if im going to pay out $35+ for a $3 trial all im going to worry about is where the traffic comes from and, for the most part, paying out ungodly amounts of money for a $3 trial is going to ensure that i get sent traffic, as a program owner.

But, on the revshare business model, which a lot of the smaller sponsors tend to use i have always been quite impressed by the members areas, they may not be the largest but, they certainly seem to deliver what is promised on the tour.

So is this 'generic' members area a problem with the affiliate programs or, a problem with affiliates simply accepting the crappy members area? I mean if im being paid $35 for every 2-300 surfers i send to a sites tour, im really not fussed whether that surfer retains or not, ive already made my money and its up to the program to make their $ from that surfer now. If they cant make their $35 back, thats their loss not mine

Regards,

Lee

[tombarr]

Lee

I agree with you from an affiliate point of view the PPS model from the larger sites certainly looks very enticing, and is of course, exactly why these programs are in place, to attract webmaster traffic. They do tend to pull more affiliates than the RevShare model.

Retention on these sites has got to be very very low. I know i would join and not only cancel but demand a refund if I joined a site and found it's tour and members content to be out of line with each other. So how does that play with the affiliate commission? I take in $3 on the trial, pay out $35, and then a month later refund the $3, and the customer has been cancelled.

What about chargebacks? don't these get passed through to the affiliate through reduction in commissions? I certainly woudl think that chargebacks on these sites would be higher than a site that provides quality members content areas that match what their tour states they have....

but i also think you have to consider it from a branding point of view as well...there has to be a percentage of other webmasters that will link to a site just because they saw the banner on another site, and also those who will link to the site without really checking the content of the members area, believing in the hype of the tour. I have seen sites hyping the mega qualities of bangkokbangers, but i KNOW they have not seen the inside of the members area because I know what is in there, and it is not even close to the tour pitch.

So the program gets the benefit short term of the webmaster traffic, until he gets pissed at the CB ratio, the fee reductions for same, refunds, etc... but it also gets a more long term exposure from those who forget to take down the banners, those who link to the site because of it's increased visibility, (giving the site a more reliability image "if this site links to it then it must be a good site" mentality), and those who add sites like these to directories, link lists and so forth during this period. Overall the program can win ..... just due to these factors, and this is a direct result of money thrown at a program by larger companies......

there has to be some math in here somewhere to predict the ROI of these type of sites, and i am sure they take all of this into consideration.....

As for me, i'd rather just run an honest content site, than to try to develop a math curve that disregards the surfer and only pumps the corporate numbers ..... but that's just me... and I am sure you as well....... but yes, it is and can become more of a "those in the money" type of game.....based upon all of the thoughts above.

Just my honest gut driven ramblings...

Tom

[Jasun]

I've gone out of my way in the past to reach out to the straight webmasters and people in the straight market for ages.

They've just recently started reaching back.

I've been welcomed onto many straight boards, asked for input, and even asked to become a regular contributing member on one (which I kinda took.. I'm doing some introductory lessons on how gay marketing and straight marketing are different on one board)

I really do think that the straight market, with it's oodles of traffic, will be ableto skim the gay cream off and work with us to do lots of good business together.

[tombarr]

I think as a content provider, great, that would open up lots of new sales opportunity to have a straight site wanting to market gay products.

I think as a site owner / operator in the gay market, giving away insight, secrets, marketing knowledge, gay market psychology, is a mistake. Sure they may ask for your input now, but rest assured that there is no love shared from companies that are corporate "numbers driven" entities. they will glean all they can, sap what juices of knowledge they can from webmasters contributing freely to them under the guise of 'community board discussions" but when it comes down to it, they are going to turn around and use this knowledge and insight and psychology and make money with it...and if it takes your market away from you..... who cares......it's only numbers to them.

If they want to learn how to properly do a gay site, let them test, learn, try, see what works, find out what doesn't, at their own expense.....

I think contributing to their knowledge base and giving them an inside track to the mind of the gay surfer and webmaster is a mistake, and jeopardizes everything many gay webmasters work long and hard on, and that is focusing on gay customers giving them great gay content, by gay webmasters that know, understand and actually care about their satisfaction.

Exactly as put in the previous post " ... really do think that the straight market, with it's oodles of traffic, will be able to skim the gay cream off " is exactly what you should fear. You are very right, they will be able to do this, and do it well, and put little gay webmasters out of business without even blinking an eye.... and they are not going to be satisifed with just skimming the cream.... but even if they were, skimming the cream is skimming the best, and isn't the best gay surfer what you and i are marketing to? why do i want to give them the knowledge to skim that from me?

personally, i want gay webmasters to succeed in a world driven by bigotry and hatred and isolation of communities that are felt to be outside their community "norm" and I personally take it offensively that they now want to try to capitalize on the gay market, a market they don't really even want to associate with, however a market that they want to make money from...

for me....no thanks..

[Squirt]

I'm going to stay away from the straight vs. Gay part of the discussion as it's too complex and it's easy to get sidetracked.

I think over the next few years it will become more difficult to break into the industry, and stay in the industry, because of merchant difficulty, content accruement, and marketing constraints.

I think the surfers will continue to get smarter ( which is good ) and they will know how to spot the rip off sites, and charge back, putting more of the crooks in our industry out of business.

Consumers will always want to have their needs met.. whether it's an amateur site that fulfills their niche wants or a high gloss professional site. I think true reality sites will become more popular, while obviously fake reality sites will continue to decline.

So in ending.. as long as you're able to stay in business, give your customers what they want.. you'll be good to go, just like the Price is Right, Wheel of Fortune and Days of Our Lives continue to do to this day. IMHO

[Matt 26z]

I'm really disappointed at the lack of advancements in online adult over the past couple years. There has been almost nothing.

Screen resolutions are getting bigger. Hard drives bigger. Connections faster...... Yet most of the content out there is optimized for 2001 and earlier. Far earlier in some sites cases.

This to me is absolutely ridiculous.

It's the equivalent of video game makers producing new titles that run on a P2 500mhz machine as well as they do a P4 4ghz machine. No, they throw everything at the computers and connections that they can handle. The result is constant advancement.

The days of 50-100 MB videos that are pathetic at full screen have to end. These grainy photos that take up half your screen have to go also.

This stuff still has to be offered for people with older computers and slower connections, but we also need to see more legit high quality options. There are very, very few paysites doing this.