Are you going to try to comply or will you try to set up in another country ? I know this is just hypothetical, but really, if they get their way, what are you going to do.
I'm seriously thinking about going to Canada. I don't want to give up my business because of these idiots.
Artist/Painter and Webmaster of Huskyhunks.com.
I will comply.
Maybe I should establish a service that pairs Americans wanting out with Canadian husbands ... gay marriage is legal in Canada.
dzinerbear
how? you planning to be home from 8 am to 6 pm every single day - no holidays, no vacations, no trips to the store?
Originally Posted by thetwink
Id be up for that. Candians are Hawt!
On advice from one of the most respected adult lawyers we've spent the last year making sure we comply with anything 2257 they can throw at us.
People, its only a bit of extra work.. its hardly the end of the world.....
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For me, it has more to do with the hostility that this current administration has toward this industry and rest assured, this is only the beginning. They still have 3 1/2 years to make US webmasters lives miserable. There's nothing stopping them from making impossible demands in the future.
My business actually resides in New Mexico which is in the 10th federal district. This is the court that threw out the Justice Departments 2257 regulations as unenforceable.
Artist/Painter and Webmaster of Huskyhunks.com.
t0miie - it's NOT just extra work.
i've talked to two of the best known adult attorneys, plus the attorney of one of the biggest content providers.
every one said the same thing about the proposed regs: that if it stood, and you had to act as custodian, you would have to be in your PRIMARY place of business from 8 am to 6pm 7 days a week (potentially earlier depending on how "business hours" is interpreted), no time off to go to the store, do a shoot, or go to the doctor - as it stood, that was 365 days per year, too.
and you can't change your mind - once you are acting custodian, you can't stop even if you turn off your site.
ok, I'll reiterate... I will comply to the best of my ability.
Basschick, you really have a hardon for this one point, and it seems like you really think the regulations literally impossible, and because of that we are all doomed to go to jail.
A. they can't get us all. B. there will most undoubtedly be lawsuits that set precedent when and if someone gets wrongly jailed when his only flaw was an unavailability issue, and C. Showing that you have all of the other aspects of the rules in compliance and a good faith of being available during normal business hours would help towards a situation B, imo.... if it doesn't, then so be it...
Got no choice but to think it this way, especially according to your doomsay attitude about the availbility factor. We must all get out of the business now, if your fears are true... c'mon, I know you have a better head on your shoulders than that.
So they turn up to inspect al your 2257 stuff, why can't you stop whatever your doing and come back to show them your records? From what I understand the *records* need to be made available during "reasonable hours" at your place of business. Logistically, that isn't hard to do...
I don't think it says that you, the custodian of records must be ready and waiting to greet them at the door with tea and coffee or anything, but I'll be getting clarification on that just in case
It's all a big pain in the ass for sure, but its not unworkable.
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t0miie - what if you're not there? what if your kid calls from school or your mom has a heart attack? probably the judge will understand, but if you get a judge who really hates porn, or who is strongly by the book...
thetwink - i have a hardon for a point that everyone wants to pretend wasn't there. i bring it up because this is what several of the best attorneys in our business told me - names i see on boards all the time, guys who are recommended by and to everyone, guys who speak at every convention, and who the big boys consult.
i have a great head on my shoulders, and being an ostrich won't change things. i'm not a large corporation who can have someone at the primary place of business 7 days a week, with my corporation acting as the custodian.
IF those new regs are passed as they were displayed originally, it will not be possible for me to comply. i'll be out of the biz, because i'm not going to be actually breaking a law and crossing my fingers that i won't be the next one they get to.
being wrongly jailed in our industry generally means they seize your computers, and you have to pay a lawyer while your sites are down. remember mike jones? they STILL haven't returned his content or his computers! it's been years!
so, that's your plan, then? you're seriously going to quit if that part remains as it was proposed? What if that part gets overturned a year later or 3 years later? what if they ammend it to allow third party records keeping? etc.
I know this is going to be a real herd thinning situation, but I never considered you part of the herd....
i have to side with Basschick on this one. When the government comes after you, it's fast and furious. They don't just shut you down, they make your life a living hell, basically using you as a scapegoat for all the evils of society. It turns your life upside down in most cases. The fact that they can put you in prison for five years on a paperwork error boggles the mind.
Let's hope this all ends quickly. California resides in the 9th circuit, which is the most liberal federal court of appeals in this country. If push comes to shove, I believe the courts will throw out most of what makes up the new proposed 2257 regulations. Basically, the current showdown is congress is all about adding conservative judges to the 9th circuit. It is seen as the "activist" circuit and so far congress has been able to block the appointment of extreme conservative judges to sit on the 9th circuit.
The 9th circuit of appeals represents the roadblock to their blueprint of a new moral code that 49% of us don't want shoved down our throats. It's very important that Democrats or Republicans continue to be able to fillibuster. It's part of the cheques and balances that give a minority a say in what goes on in this country. Let's just hope the 9th circuit stays in tact. If it goes moderate or even conservative, this administration will have undone decades of legislative balance and well, you've seen their handy work.
Artist/Painter and Webmaster of Huskyhunks.com.
Huskyhunks - the courts may not have this at their discretion, but hopefully maybe... i think living in california is nice because of community standards, though
thetwink - you are being fairly insulting - maybe because you don't like what i'm saying... i want to be very brief and clear:
the lawyers i spoke to said having your i.d. in order WOULD NOT be enough to have you in compliance with those proposed regs. period.
i am not a criminal. if these are the changes to the laws, i will follow them for that reason. following the herd? are you honestly suggesting that people should break the law? since 2257 already existed to protect children, the only reason for the new laws IS to harrass webmasters.
btw, i believe there is a five year manadatory sentence that can go as high as ten - that is, if your models are all over 18.
I think there are some very good points being made by all sides in this discussion. But I've noticed no one has really talked about the PRACTICAL aspect of the enforcement of these new regs.
As it is, the federal government, and especially the A.G.'s office has shown to be pretty inept when it comes to law enforcement. Heck, we can't even get our intelligence agencies together to really find the terrorists in this country and protect our airports properly.
So with the myriad of of porn sites out there, just how enforceable will these new regulations be from a manpower standpoint? There has to be someone to SURF and look at the sites, and somewhere along the line someone has to say "We should go visit whoever owns this site." THEN, you need people to actually do such visits. With the shrinking budget and cutbacks this administration has been initiating, where the heck are they going to get all this manpower?
I know that the really BIG boys would be fairly easy to round up ("Hi Mr. Flint, I'm from the AG's office & I want to see your records."), but for all the 18 year old's out there running sites from their parent's basements..how are you really going to have enuf people running around tracing these people down and actually visiting them?
So while I think it's important that you be compliant, and I agree that it shouldn't be that difficult to have the records, and have the records in one spot where they can be easily retreived, personally I will find it interesting to see how many people they actually do bust.
Remember..under the OLD regs..NO ONE was ever busted! At least according to the outgoing Attorney General himself.
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