Is There a GayVN Summit?

[Lee]

Thanks, hon. How did you find that page?

Google is our friend

Oh and yes, these shows are over-priced, thats why attendance is continually falling.

The problem with falling attendance though, prices have to be raised to off-set profit margins, its a vicious circle.

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

If you are planning on getting involved in any of the official events, please feel free to just contact me directly.

JR

Might help to include your contact info

[XXXWriterDude]

Steve,

Check this out..

http://www.gayvnsummit.com/attendees/index.php

Looks like AVNs version of the Gay Phoenix Forum but sponsored by straight companies but with a $350 price tag.

Regards,

Lee

The sponsors don't really have anything to do with the planning of the show itself. And both PussyCash and HotMovies have gay divisions. But leave it to Lee to pooh-pooh everything. Guess it wouldn't be GWW if that wasn't the case.

[Lee]

The sponsors don't really have anything to do with the planning of the show itself. And both PussyCash and HotMovies have gay divisions. But leave it to Lee to pooh-pooh everything. Guess it wouldn't be GWW if that wasn't the case.

Ken, i never said the sponsors had anything to do with the planning, i said it was sponsored by primarily straight companies based on what is on the site right now, and that it also comes with a hefty price-tag.

As an 'inaugural' event, would it not make better business sense for AVN/GAYVN to lower the registration free, or even waive it to attract more attendee's? That business plan seems to have worked for CCBill recently

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

Ken, i never said the sponsors had anything to do with the planning, i said it was sponsored by primarily straight companies based on what is on the site right now, and that it also comes with a hefty price-tag.

As an 'inaugural' event, would it not make better business sense for AVN/GAYVN to lower the registration free, or even waive it to attract more attendee's? That business plan seems to have worked for CCBill recently

Regards,

Lee

Well, I don't have anything to do with the planning. But at $350, it's only $100 bucks more than the Gay Phoenix Forum was.

[Lee]

But at $350, it's only $100 bucks more than the Gay Phoenix Forum was.

Huh?

The Gay Phoenix Forum was FREE the GAYVNSummit is (by my calculations) $350 more expensive than the Forum was.

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

Huh?

The Gay Phoenix Forum was FREE the GAYVNSummit is (by my calculations) $350 more expensive than the Forum was.

Regards,

Lee

The Gay Phoenix Forum was free only if you registered in advance. Those who didn't had to pay $250 a pop.

[Lee]

The Gay Phoenix Forum was free only if you registered in advance. Those who didn't had to pay $250 a pop.

You cant see my point is what you mean?

How much is the advanced registration for the Summit?

After the 'advanced registration' how much is registration?

C'mon Ken you are smarter than that.

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

You cant see my point is what you mean?

How much is the advanced registration for the Summit?

After the 'advanced registration' how much is registration?

C'mon Ken you are smarter than that.

Regards,

Lee

Lee, please quit talking down to me, OK? Your superiority complex is really starting to get on my nerves.

[gaybucks_chip]

Ken, I have to agree with Lee on this one.

About 85 or 90% of the registrants for Gay Phoenix Forum got the free registration. Only a handful of people paid the registration fee. It's not reasonable to compare the only-if-you-didn't-register-in-time registration cost of Gay Phoenix Forum with the cost of the AVN show. And CCBill said that there was only about a 10 or 15% no-show rate for the people who booked free registration.

For webmasters or affiliates who aren't raking in the big bucks, the costs of flying to SF (or Phoenix), paying for hotel/meals/ground transportation, etc. stretches the budget and that extra $350 may be the make-or-break for some of the growing players.

CCBill can manage to run a first-class show completely on the strength of sponsorships provided by companies in the industry without any cost to attendees.

AVN, which has much more marketing muscle and the entirety of GayVN online and GayVN magazine to get the word out, ought to be able to do the same thing... or at the very least, make the registration fee reasonable ($50-$100 or something.)

I like and respect the folks at AVN, but what I don't understand is why the powers-that-be don't seem to understand that the trade show financial paradigm is shifting and what worked several years ago isn't going to work as well when there's a product that (in most people's eyes) that's better and free when compared to the product that AVN offers. It's still possible to make the show financially viable without high registration fees... CCBill has proven that... and it's not like you have to pay the robbery prices that Vegas convention halls extort for a small show at a San Francisco hotel.

We, as program owners, want more than anything to see the new, smaller programs and traffic people come to these shows. I'd say this deserves rethinking. If AVN doesn't want to "devalue" the perceived price of admission, offer a ton of free admission passes to people in the industry.

[XXXWriterDude]

Hey Chip,

I certainly understand where you're coming from. But well, we're not the Gay Phoenix Forum, and I don't think it's logical to expect that just because one show does something one way, others should do it the same way.

I'm not really at liberty to speak on behalf of the company--nor do I really want to. My opinions are only my own, and I prefer it that way. But what I can say from a personal perspetive is that AVN typically offers a different, more "high-end" experience, and one that is costly for us them produce.

And that's about all I can say, really. Whether you make the decision to go is entirely up to you, of course. Based on what I've been hearing around the office about the show, you'd be missing out if you skip it.

[Lee]

I don't think it's logical to expect that just because one show does something one way, others should do it the same way.

It is also not logical to assume that just because the Forum had a really good attendance for their gay gathering that AVN, who is charging almost $500 for registration will have.

Its a well-known fact that the AVN/Internext shows have been dwindling attendance wise over the past few years whilst, at the same time, costs for attending the shows have risen, if you [AVN not you personally] cant see the correlation between the constant increase in prices and the constant decrease in attendance, then something is amiss.

But what I can say from a personal perspetive is that AVN typically offers a different, more "high-end" experience, and one that is costly for us them produce.

Then why not pass that cost across to the people who should be paying it, the people who are getting their names flashed in front of every person that attends one of the shows? The simple fact is, you cant, because show attendance is dwindling... Sponsors dont want to spend the money on sponsorship.. There is that vicious circle i mentioned earlier.

Ultimately, if what you [AVN/Interext] is doing now is failing, and be under no misconception, it is failing, you need to start changing things... Perhaps having a 'high-end experience' shouldnt be what you guys focus on, instead, focus on THE most important aspect of a successfull show.. The attendees.

Several people have commented in this thread and in your 'gaydar' thread that the costs of the AVN/Internext shows is to high, just as people have been doing for the last 3 years, perhaps Paul and the organizers of the shows can actually listen to what their potential attendees are saying and do something about it for a change.

Sponsors at the show want to attract a certain type of webmaster, the newbie, they want to hook them on their product as early on as possible, if a newbie cant afford to attend the show, what is the point in a sponsor paying thousands of dollars in sponsorship?

Most people who attended Vegas this year, already have programs that they work really closely with, the costs to program owners to sway these established affiliate relations over to their program is unbeleivably high, it is much easier to snag a newbie [speaking as a program owner] and develop that newbies skills than it is to 'pay off' a midbie to send traffic.

Bottom line, you [and other shows] need to start attracting newer webmasters to their events, these newer webmasters are the future of the industry, we either cater to their needs educationally or we kill the industry as we know it and, in time, kill the tradeshow.

A $500 'registration' does nothing to attract fresh blood to the shows, in fact, its having the opposite effect, its pushing people away from them.

Regards,

Lee

[gaybucks_chip]

Hey Chip,

I certainly understand where you're coming from. But well, we're not the Gay Phoenix Forum, and I don't think it's logical to expect that just because one show does something one way, others should do it the same way.

Absolutely. I was more indicating that the market seems to be leaning in the direction of sponsor-funded shows where attendance is low in cost or free. Of course AVN can continue to operate its shows the way it always has... but most shrewd business owners look at trends in the marketplace and make modifications in their business model when market conditions dictate. Certainly AVN has made some strides in that direction... the whole setup of the Florida show borrows heavily from the networking environment introduced by the Phoenix Forums, and it sounds like Vegas will be similar... but the financial model still seems to be following an older model that simply doesn't seem to be working as well as it once did. Of course, I'm no expert on trade shows, and what I'm putting forth here are just my own observations.

But what I can say from a personal perspetive is that AVN typically offers a different, more "high-end" experience, and one that is costly for us them produce.

I'm surprised to hear you say this, because other than the convention floor (which in practically everyone's opinion could be entirely done away with) and the high location cost of hosting in Vegas (which could easily be changed) it doesn't seem like there is much that is more expensive for AVN in producing the show vs. CCBill's costs for the Phoenix Forum. Yes, the show floor and related services are extremely pricey, but when you're leasing space out at 50 bucks a square foot for 3 days use, I doubt that's a money-losing proposition.

By contrast, the Phoenix Forums have high quality buffet dinners, lunch buffets, constant snacks, a professionally printed and bound networking guide with each preregistered attendee's information, and gifts to each attendee provided by the sponsors, and even open bar networking activities all provided completely free of charge to attendees.

AVN hasn't typically offered anywhere near that level of services at their events, so I have a hard time seeing how AVN can position themselves as a "higher end" event unless there is something I'm completely missing.

Whether you make the decision to go is entirely up to you, of course. Based on what I've been hearing around the office about the show, you'd be missing out if you skip it.

Oh, we definitely are planning to be there, and may even sponsor some part of the event, as we did with Gay Phoenix Forum. I'm just saying that I think AVN could make some choices that would make the event a lot more successful if it was willing to listen to the input it's receiving from the community that is the one who will make or break the event.

[XXXWriterDude]

Ultimately, if what you [AVN/Interext] is doing now is failing, and be under no misconception, it is failing, you need to start changing things... Perhaps having a 'high-end experience' shouldnt be what you guys focus on, instead, focus on THE most important aspect of a successfull show.. The attendees.

Lee, I certainly see your points, and you do make some good ones, but I have to take exception with your typically egregious "sky-is-falling" mentality. You stated something similar about AVN Online last year, claiming that the company was failing miserably, when in fact we're doing better than ever. As I said in another thread, everybody stumbles once in a while. Everybody makes mistakes. I would hardly think one stumble in the several years AVN has been putting these shows on means that the Internext shows are "failing." We're growing and evolving, just as the industry is doing. I've heard nothing but raves about the Florida show (which you opted to skip), as is evidenced in my Gaydar column, and there are a few people (some who have posted in this very thread) that are--contrary to what you seem to purport--quite excited about the potential for Vegas 2007 and the GAYVN Summit.

In regard to your other points, I will certainly pass them on to the powers that be here at the company.

[GAYVNJeff]

Hey Guys, I guess I need to be on the board more so I can jump in and head off some of the confussion and misconception about our show as it is happening in realtime

Look this show is different then the Phoenix Forum. This summit includes food, parties, and transportation to parties. The program itself is not just industry related we are also hiring outside speakers to talk about how to improve your business and how to take your profits to better invest to grow your business it is not like phoenix forum.

This is a very upscale show. We are holding the seminars and the meals at the W Hotel in San Francisco. We are doing this show first class.

Our site is due up in the next couple of days with more information on attending which should really answer a lot of questions but if you have any concerns just ask me.