Mr. President, WHY is the National Guard in IRAQ?

[Squirt]

The Federal government, and in particular the Bush administration, is firmly to blame for the level of damage incurred by this disaster and the lack of immediate aid to those in need, as we speak, in the effected areas.

"Just last year, the Army Corps of Engineers sought $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans. The White House slashed the request to about $40 million. Congress finally approved $42.2 million, less than half of the agency's request.

Yet the lawmakers and Bush agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-laden highway bill that included more than 6,000 pet projects for lawmakers. Congress spent money on dust control for Arkansas roads, a warehouse on the Erie Canal and a $231 million bridge to a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

How could Washington spend $231 million on a bridge to nowhere - and not find $42 million for hurricane and flood projects in New Orleans? It's a matter of power and politics." SOURCE

Desslock, being president of the United States of America is a difficult job. If being President were easy, and you weren't responsible for anything, anyone could do it. Only a select few, out of hundreds of millions of U.S. citizens, even seriously qualify to run for President.

The Bush, and his old boys network of an administration, have constantly blamed everyone else for everything that has happened since Bush has taken office. NEVER ever, not even once, has Bush taken responsibility for anything he's done to this country. We have a record deficit, record oil prices, record gas prices, a war in Iraq to free people from a dictator that's been captured, yet we're still being killed there on a daily basis, low currency value, citizens have fewer rights now then ever before, babies are being added to no fly lists by the TSA, the media is afraid to freely express itself out of fear. BUT... the president isn't to blame. Who is? On September 11th 2 airplanes flew into two buildings in New York killing a couple thousand people... how our government reacted, headed by our President Bush, is what brought us to where we are today, NOTHING else. We are FUCKED for the next three years.. it will only get worse.

My exasperation would be more at why the people who live there and elect hadn't prepared a little better for it.

How prepared can one be when their house is underwater? Some of this is unavoidable and no matter how prepared a person might be, they could end up with nothing but the clothes on there back and in need of water, shelter and food.

I saw the news coverage. Thousands of people were leaving the area, clogged up freeways, over crowded airports, etc. If you are poor, for whatever reason, and are living paycheck to paycheck, or are on public assistance, what can be expected of you in regards to preparedness for a natural disaster? What can be expected is our national guard, directed by the president, to be sent in to help evacuations for a notoriously impoverished area of the United States.. pretty simple.

NOTE to Desslock: I feel passionately about this subject.. no anger or resentment is directed at any way to you :love:

[Slade]

Much less try to allege that because there are troops in Iraq, this would have changed anything. Everything will be temporary until they now stop the breeches and get the water out.

Steve

Obviously it is more than having the full compliment of National Guardsmen available..but to say it makes NO difference is very naive I think. You don't think a few hundred more lives SAVED initially with more troops is signficant?

CBS news reported that there were just a handful of National Guard on the streets of New Orleans. New Orleans should be CRAWLING with National Guard..everywhere.

NBC News reported that there are only 14,200 guardsmen on duty in BOTH the states of Louisiana and Mississippi.

And finally, if there is no issue about the # of guardsmen available, why did the government just call up **10,000** COMBAT troops for relief efforts?


And thank you Squirt for what you posted too.
I would have thought that since the Gulf Coast was vital to America's oil production and refining, that the Bush admin would at least be motivated by that.

[Squirt]

Perhaps if you suggest the Louisianans should turn out their representation, do you also think their Democrat Governor should be held at least as accountable? After all, Louisiana is her full time job. The "neo-cons" don't run the state.

"Once the hurricane hit, relief trickled into the Gulf Coast. Even Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown, whose agency is in charge of disaster response, pronounced the initial results unacceptable.

The hurricane was the first major test of FEMA since it became part of the Homeland Security Department, a massive new bureaucracy that many feared would make the well-respected FEMA another sluggish federal agency." SOURCE

The Bush administration combined FEMA with the Homeland Security Department and the disaster in New Orleans in the result. The FEMA director himself said their results are unacceptable... why would you try to place blame with anyone other then those in control of FEMA saying they aren't performing to standard?

You're right NeoCons don't run the state, but they do control funding for maintaining and enhancing the levys that keep the place from flooding, and funding for natural disaster, as I demonstrated in my previous post. They also control FEMA and Homeland Security. :thumbsup:

[desslock]

Squirt --

You know while that Levy-Money transportation bill was moving through Congress, Loiuisana's Senator Mary Landrieu was using her resources to co sponsor the lovely Anti-Porn Internet Tax bill we were talking about on here earlier.

So do you think she might actually fit Even More into the kind of lax politician you would pin blame on here? You mention specifically the Bush's bad priorities, let's not dismiss hers.

Now MARY LANDRIEU LIVES IN NEW ORLEANS. Also SHE IS ON THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE. Good grief.... since she and her father have spent their whole lives in New Orleans politics, I would think people like her have some culpability.

Maybe a teeeny weeeny bit. Mebbe. Mebbe.

(well I dunno she's not a neo-con and they are the punching bag, right?)

Look I know you think Bush represents everything terrible in the world. But what if he were replaced, and the problems you dislike continue happening?
I still maintain that the local people who live in the area and are intimately familiar that their home was a bullseye for hurricanes should have prepared better. There's money there - the city bilks cash out of casinos..... taxes, oil/gas royalties. It's not like the place was broke.

As I said before, I just keep thinking about the difference between this and 9 - 11. It is just miles apart.... and its the same administration.

Sadly.... the whole situation is just terrible. I've had trouble concentrarting on work all week.

Steve

[A_DeAngelo]

We've seen the management team do their stuff in Iraq, why should we be
surprised that their tripping over their shoestrings now?

[Squirt]

You know while that Levy-Money transportation bill was moving through Congress, Loiuisana's Senator Mary Landrieu was using her resources to co sponsor the lovely Anti-Porn Internet Tax bill we were talking about on here earlier.

So do you think she might actually fit Even More into the kind of lax politician you would pin blame on here? You mention specifically the Bush's bad priorities, let's not dismiss hers.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when the Army Corp of engineers says they need $105 billion to stabilize the New Orleans levies and setup flood/disaster systems, that it should be passed. No questions asked. But then again we have a Republican congress and it's a Democratic state... I guess it's what they deserve right?

Now MARY LANDRIEU LIVES IN NEW ORLEANS. Also SHE IS ON THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE. Good grief.... since she and her father have spent their whole lives in New Orleans politics, I would think people like her have some culpability.

Maybe a teeeny weeeny bit. Mebbe. Mebbe.

(well I dunno she's not a neo-con and they are the punching bag, right?)

Republican Sen. Ted Stevens is a senior member of the committee.. he has much more leeway don't you think? Let's not even get started on the appropriations committe. :wacko:

You can put whatever blame you want on Mary Landrieu... without ANY federal help BEFORE the storm look how many people were saved? They got the word out.. people were leaving. Unfortunately New Orleans doesn't have it's own FEMA or Army. Though the red cross and salvation army were poised and ready for action, thanks to her. You can only work with what you got, she's not the president of the united states.

Look I know you think Bush represents everything terrible in the world. But what if he were replaced, and the problems you dislike continue happening?

I'm an independent Steve.... if it was Clinton I'd feel the same. Injustice is just that, regardless of whom the purpatrator is.

As I said before, I just keep thinking about the difference between this and 9 - 11. It is just miles apart.... and its the same administration.

Sadly.... the whole situation is just terrible. I've had trouble concentrating on work all week.

Steve this is a natural disaster spanning several states! This disaster in no way compares with two buildings falling to the ground on one block in New York! How can you even begin to compare? In New York the own cities police and fire department we able to response because THEY WEREN'T UNDERWATER. In New York it was mainly a mission of cleanup and body recovery NOT saving starving, wet, cold, people with destroyed homes and families to take care of.

Steve.. PLEASE tell me how New York relates to the Katrina disaster.... Keep in mind that your Bush administration merged FEMA with Homeland Security after 911, part of the reason for the problems occurring as we speak.

[desslock]

Steve.. PLEASE tell me how New York relates to the Katrina disaster.... Keep in mind that your Bush administration merged FEMA with Homeland Security after 911, part of the reason for the problems occurring as we speak.

Hey - it may be part of the problem. In fact, let me say too that I think the Bush Administration's response has been pretty weak. But rather then there being a lack of national guard troops, why not say that there are a good number of people there, but their resources are being terribly watsed because there is absolute chaos?

I am mentioning 9-11 simply in comparison of how the after-events management occured. As I mentioned earlier....Mayor Guilliani held news conferences, and there was some communication. Here it is like the entire local government just collapsed.... like Somalia.

You know, I actually have had a long standing concern about how many local cities and state governments are simply not held accountable by the electorate. In Austin, city politics is dominated by interest groups mainly, and I think that is not uncommon elsewhere. I think that is brings out the worst in politicians - who then spend the entire day following stupid pet projects like banning smoking. I don't think the problem is a lack of voter turnout.... it is just that when people go and elect a mayor simply because he has the seal of approval from your local gay rights political caucus... obviously may not translate to whether that same individual can guide the city through a unforseen disaster.

In fact, let's watch how events unfold in the hurricane area of the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I just think you can hold the federal government and Bush accountable, but only to an extent.

You pretty much blew off my talk about Sen. Landrieu. (who is a Democrat by the way) She lives in New Orleans. And, many of you may not know, but she and her father have long been involved in New Orleans politics. THEY knew the chance of a hurricane hitting existed. It this was not just discovered one or two years ago.

and furthermore, I don't want to miss an opportunity to say again that she co sponsored the Internet Porn Tax bill we were all talking about on here last month as being a terrible waste of resources. So why can't you say that she fiddled while her Rome drowned?

And I'll bet if you looked there are a good number of porkbarrel appropriations for Louisiana from her for things like studying ants at Tulane University..... all in lieu of funding proper protection against hurricanes in her hometown.

Steve

[Squirt]

You pretty much blew off my talk about Sen. Landrieu. (who is a Democrat by the way) She lives in New Orleans. And, many of you may not know, but she and her father have long been involved in New Orleans politics. THEY knew the chance of a hurricane hitting existed. It this was not just discovered one or two years ago.

OK then:

Sen. Landrieu May 2005

Corresponding with the first day of a foreboding hurricane season, Sen. Mary Landrieu will join state and local officials and French Quarter businesses to participate in a dramatization of the impact of a worst-case scenario in New Orleans, a direct hit from a major hurricane. The event will feature the demonstration of the devastating level of flooding that would occur in the historical French Quarter of New Orleans also indicating flooding in frontline coastal areas that could literally be wiped out by the storm surge of a Class 4 or 5 hurricane. Coastal land loss and the loss of barrier islands have heightened the probability of flooding in Louisiana cities and towns. . . .


Sen. Landrieu Nov 2001

"....safety concerns also support the case for federal funding to improve I-49 South and LA-1. These safety concerns exists because the US Hwy. 90 / I-49 South route has a long history of vehicular fatalities and because more than 35,000 citizens in South Lafourche and Grand Isle must travel on LA-1 during a hurricane evacuation. Sen. Landrieu said, "Improvements to I-49 South and LA-1 will increase safety during normal conditions and will enhance evacuation capabilities during disasters. These safety concerns are of the utmost importance."

Sen. Landrieu Feb 2005 - Comments after visiting Tsunami devastation

"But warning is not enough. We must also invest and re-invest in our natural barriers and constantly and review our evacuation routes. This giant wave not only killed a quarter of a million people, it also obliterated the natural coastal barriers in the region. "

Sen. Landrieu 2002

On Sept. 28, U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu called a hurricane preparedness meeting of top officials from Orleans, St. Tammany, Jefferson and St. Bernard parishes. Landrieu's visitor, Sen. Jim Jeffords (Ind-Vt.), who chairs a Senate committee that is working on $280 billion national transportation and public works appropriations bill, heard concerns such as the need for multi-million dollar emergency back-up generators for pumping stations, flood protection for evacuation routes, and a light rail system to evacuate the indigent and disabled. The hastily called summit was certainly a good photo op for Landrieu, who is seeking re-election. But it was also a good idea, and it should serve as a model for future regional cooperation on disasters.

Isidore also provided Mayor Ray Nagin his first experience with the city's Office of Emergency Preparedness atop City Hall. Nagin noted that an estimated 100,000 residents of the city rely on public transportation, and he said he hopes federal support for a future light rail system will enable the city to evacuate these residents to Louis Armstrong International Airport and points beyond.

In addition, Nagin deplored the "patchwork of networks among the parishes in terms of [emergency] communications and technology." We expect police and emergency agencies to be talking to each other on the same radio channel during an emergency. Apparently, they were not, at least not during Isidore. Nagin is correct to worry publicly about such a lack of coordination, and we share his concern.

-----------

There's so much more but I'm outta time today.

I don't care that she's anti porn. People have differing views on differing topic, it doesn't mean that she hasn't done her job in trying to get help for LA. for quite some time now.. and been basically pushed asside. They were as prepared as they could be locally, the feds, on the other hand, weren't. I know I know.. it's Sen. Landrieu fault :coffee:

[Slade]

But rather then there being a lack of national guard troops, why not say that there are a good number of people there, but their resources are being terribly watsed because there is absolute chaos?

One reason there is absolute chaos is due to a lack of national guard troops.
Believe it or not..they DO go hand in hand.

It is obviously not the only thing at fault here (lack of troops), but I started this thread because I am angry that we have troops where they shouldn't be and DON'T have them where they SHOULD be.

For example..Governor asks for 40,000 MORE troops!
-------------------------
BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (CNN) -- Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said Thursday she has requested the mobilization of 40,000 National Guard troops to restore order and assist in relief efforts in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans.
----------------------------
And these troops are comming from other states.

[Slade]

And then there is also this:
-------------------
"Perhaps the biggest complaint about the federal response stems from the brazen lawlessness and looting in the city, punctuated with gunfire.

Chertoff said Thursday that 4,200 trained National Guard military police would be deployed in the city over the next three days, quadrupling the law enforcement presence in New Orleans.

"Fourteen hundred military police trained soldiers will be arriving every day --- 1,400 today, 1,400 tomorrow and 1,400 the next day," he said.

"Frankly, what we're doing is we are putting probably more than we need in order to send an unambiguous message that we will not tolerate lawlessness or violence or interference with the evacuation."

Yet, the first contingent of those promised military police were not scheduled to arrive until late Thursday night -- and only 100 Guard members would be in that first wave, according to Pentagon officials. Pressed about the other 1,300 promised troops, officials would only say that they were on the way.

New Orleans police officers told CNN that they needed the manpower earlier in the week to prevent the looting and violence now prevalent in the city. The situation is now much worse because among the first items taken from stores, according to the officers, were guns -- turning unarmed thieves into armed gangsters.

Police were reduced to looting ammunition from stores themselves, to keep it off the streets."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/0...nse/index.html

[Northstar]

Why was Bush golfing while Katrina hit? We all heard on the news that this could possibly be the worst hurricane ever. Wouldn't you think Bush would have heard the same news reports that we did and would have been a little more prepared for this disaster? It sounds almost as responsible as Bush reading a book to little kids during 911.

[Tristin]

I am mentioning 9-11 simply in comparison of how the after-events management occured. As I mentioned earlier....Mayor Guilliani held news conferences, and there was some communication. Here it is like the entire local government just collapsed.... like Somalia.

Steve

Well, I happen to live in New York City, and I have to disagree with you. On 9-11, when those buildings fell down, it only knocked out power for the lower manhatten grid. (1% of the total citywide power grid.) Mayor Guilliani and the city of New York did such a good job becuase they hads the tools in place to do it. power worked, phones worked, cells worked, radio worked, With the exception of the subway system which was closed down, everything worked outside of lower manhatten.

The big easy however has no power, no water, no radio, no cell phones, no passable roads, no food, no hospitals, and 80% of the city is underwater. The goverment asked Bush for money to fix the leveys years ago, I don't think you can blame anything on the local goverment for this one. All the blame for the cuase of this disaster which could have been prevented lays in the White House.

These two events simply can't be commpaired in any way.

[Slade]

And in one of the biggest ironies, 100 National Guardsmen just back from Iraq were deployed in New Orleans today according to ABC news.

But Bush says they are NOT bringing the Lousiana and Mississippi guard units home early, even THOUGH their one year service there ends just NEXT MONTH!

Bush..the village idiot.