Do you like muscles?

**XXXWriterDude** · 09-09-2005, 10:10 PM

Personally, I find the gay community's obsession with their physical appearance rather shallow and disturbing. Hang out in any gay bar, and you will inevitably overhear a line like this: "Great body; where do you work out?" Or "Hey, you been working out? You're looking great."

All this focus on what we look like on the outside and SOOOO little attention to who we are on the inside. Yes, guys who are fit look great. There's no denying that. Muscles are hot, but ANYONE can have them. They are nothing special, nor do they say anything about the caliber of one's personality, soul or heart.

I used to date this guy who had all these posters and pictures ripped from magazines posted on every inch of his wall featuring these hot, ripped dudes, and one day I was like, "What's with all this muscle worship?" And he said, "Well, isn't that what all gay men want?" My response was, "There's nothing wrong with wanting a guy who looks good. The question remains, though, is that ALL we want?"

You see all these online profiles where it's like "I want a guy who's REAL, who is sensitive and kind, who likes long walks on the beach, who wants to strip away all the pretense and share his life with me." And then, right after that, there's this: "Built men ONLY need apply."

I get real sick of the word REAL being tossed around so much. Because, if you really want to get REAL about it, being "REAL" has a lot to do with looking past such shallowness and seeing the heart and soul of a person who may be lurking within a body that doesn't fit into the requirements of the gay community's increasingly ridiculous Ken Doll Complex.

And there you go. Just my two cents.

Slade · 09-09-2005, 10:33 PM

:cheese:

Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

Personally, I find the gay community's obsession with their physical appearance rather shallow and disturbing.

And you know that someone will say (Or at least THINK) "those who make comments like this are usually the ones out of shape".. and for the record..I am NOT saying that about you.

But given STRICTLY the physical attraction..are you REALLY attracted to a guy's sense of humor or his pecs/butt/cock?

Verily I say unto you..it is not GAY men that are shallow..but MEN PERIOD!
And maybe gay men a tad more shallow than straight..to be perfectly honest.

Ok..shoot away everyone! :cheese:

Xstr8guy · 09-09-2005, 10:45 PM

I feel so removed from the rest of gay society. I could care less about young, smooth, hung muscle guys. Give me a hairy daddy with some meat on his bones. Oh wait, I already have one of those and he's doing laundry right now as I type this. I'm so lucky!

**Squirt** · 09-09-2005, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

I feel so removed from the rest of gay society. I could care less

That about says it all for me right there

curiousbunny · 09-10-2005, 01:41 AM

I Prefer Lean. I don't like super buff guys.
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<img border="0" src="http://www.appealingpics.com/GXA/005/5fhg10.jpg" width="450" height="600"></p>

**XXXWriterDude** · 09-10-2005, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Slade

But given STRICTLY the physical attraction..are you REALLY attracted to a guy's sense of humor or his pecs/butt/cock?

Well, if it's a strictly physical attraction, how could you SEE his sense of humor??? Am I just supposed to sense it with a sixth sense?

Honestly, the FIRST thing I look for in another guy is his face--more specifically, his eyes, to see how they twinkle, what they show, how deep they are. A smile is everything to me. From there I move down and see what else is up with the dude, and then, of course, judge based on my own personal preferences. But I have gay friends who say, "Ken, why would you be into hiim? He's not attractive at all. He's got a belly, or he's not in the greatest shape." And I response is always simply, "I see something in him."

Of course, almost every attraction is based in the beginning on a physical level of some kind. I would not be attracted to a 400-pound hairy dude with missing teeth. But my range in what I find attractive is honestly all over the place, and I am very proud of that. I come from the east, where the pickings weren't so plentiful and you honestly took the time to get to know someone. And that's a mentality that I've maintained. But I've had guys tell me, "Dude, you're incredibly good looking, but not my type." And when I say back to them, "Wait, you're saying I'm hot, but hot isn't what you like?" And a few of them have said back, "Well, to be hoenst, I just want bigger-built guys."

What annoys me is when a dude starts working out, then says, "Now that I can get the hotter guys, I don't bother with anything less" or "He has to have muscles because I have muscles." Again, in the profiles online, guys will openly say, "I work out, so you should too." It's this sense of entitlement that muscular guys seem to acquire that really irks me.

There is so much insecurity in the gay community, and so many guys feel displaced from it because everywhere they turn, magazines only place the hottest guys on the cover and every single guy walking down Santa Monica Blvd. looks like he just trained to star in a swords-and-sandals epic movie alongside Brad Pitt, so he's gotta look good. We aren't inclusive enough of the different types of guys. And really, HOT comes in many shapes and sizes. It's not about muscle or a hairy chest or a bubble butt or any of those things that turn us on on a strictly purient level; it's really about an energy, a sense of confidence, a self-esteem that propels a guy's persona and disposition that I, personally, find tons more attractive than how big his pecs are. Honestly, if it's a REQUIREMENT that a guy has to be ripped in order for you ("you" in the plural sense), I think it says a whole lot about a person's priorities and sense of self.

I will be the first to admit that I struggle with my body issues and my own confidence b/cuz of a deep-seeded sense of inadequacy that I feel left over from my days in school, when I was relentlessly teased by the jocks. I developed severe gym phobia as a result. I just tense up and feel horribly out of place there, like I don't belong. And I struggle with the whole gym culture thing, because I wonder how much of it is really about being in shape and being healthy, and how much of it is rooted in us just wanting to be more hot so we can feel validated because of our OUTER appearances? It's one of my biggest personal struggles. I did go out and buy some weights, and I do work out now on a semi-daily basis at home, but I don't spend two hours at it a day and I don't talk about my workout routine to my friends. I do it for me, just to feel a little healthier and more confident.

But the moment one of those guys from before who rejected me comes to me and says, "Hey, you're hot enough for me now," it's going to feel SO good to say, "Thank you. I appreciate that." Then just move right on. Because really, if it it takes me being a muscle guy for someone to appreciate me for WHO I am, not what I look like, do I really want to be with that person when the looks start to fade and REAL life sets in?

Something tells me, "Hmmm, I don't think so."

**basschick** · 09-10-2005, 04:04 AM

ken, i know a LOT of bodybuilders who aren't even close to what you are describing. the men i know who demand physical perfection are mostly the toned guys - not the bodybuilders.

i used to be a bodybuilder - and there aren't many women bodybuilders out there. i started by working out, then fell madly in LOVE with free weights, leg presses, hack squats, and so on. i was able to get big not because i wanted to show off, but because i LOVED working out. and at a certain point, because of that love, i became devoted to developing size - a passionate hobby.

i have been working with bodybuilders for a while now, and i used to talk to the men i'd see all the time at the gym. i'm sure there are guys out there like you describe, but i've never met one - and i was a total gym rat for years. during a several year period, i simultaneously had memberships in beverly hills health and fitness, nautilus plus and bally's, and i knew plenty of guys at all of them.

it takes dedication to spend 3 hours or more in a gym 5 times a week. if all a guy cared about was attracting hot guys, he would spend 2 hours three times a week, and he'd do great. men - and women - who spend 15 - 25 or more hours a week have to have more motivation - or they'd get bored. you're talking about very self-centered people in your posts, and i've never noticed that wholly self-centered people HAVE that kind of dedication.

by the way, if a guy finds muscles so attractive that he is willing to spend 100 hours a month building his, it might make sense he finds muscles attractive in others. after all, dzinerbear and xtr8guy find hairiness attractive in the exact same way - and you find that reasonable.

basement · 09-10-2005, 05:39 AM

My preference is toned, not exaggerated. And Slade I would say straight guys are just as shallow as gay guys.

.

**A_DeAngelo** · 09-10-2005, 10:02 AM

...and after all we have been through as a "community" facing AIDS...I ask honestly, isn't it better to see a group of guys, especially within the last few years who exude health and fitness, guys who have been taking care of themselves as an alternative to wasting?

Like I said before, I've been in the gym since day one and I've seen numbers of men (and women) come to gain "life saving" muscle. Because, so many are "older" it is as if they are being re-born as they see their muscles build and grow...sometimes for the first time in their lives.

Muscle is essential to help the body out in times of stress. Muscle is what the body looses first, in defense of weight loss; fat does nothing and hangs around and around.

If you take 3 people with the same illness for instance, one, with lots of lean muscle, one average, and one, obese, and put them all in the hospital...
the person with lean muscle will recover more quickly and be out before the average, person with higher body fat and both will be out before the obese person who will most likely develop additional problems due to being overweight.

As a group, I think the Gay Community is way to quick to judge people on appearances. And, living in Beverly Hills, I can tell you that the straight community is right on our tails...plastic surgery capital of the world where a lot of people exist looking like living cadavers!

And don't forget that we here in beautiful BH, CA are also quick to judge each other on exactly what part of town we live in, how new are newest car is and what model and make it is, where we lunch, etc, etc... all through example, I think a sad goal for many throughout the country and around the world!?!?!? via the gazilliions of networks and mindless shows and movies we spit out...

However, and back to the point, I think that everyone strikes a balance with societal pressures, health concerns, trends and the like to find their own comfort levels with respect to phsysical appearance.

in closing, none of us are gettin' any younger so enjoy life while you can...

**XXXWriterDude** · 09-10-2005, 03:34 PM

basschick and De Angelo, you both make very good points, and I would probably agree with you that those who bodybuild for the reasons you describe are probably a lot less likely to be so judgmental of others. I have, in fact, had a few bodybuilders totally chase me down and be all like, "Dude, you're fuckin' hot. Let's go." And I'm like, WHAT??? YOU want ME???

But I don't know that what you describe speaks to the original point of the thread, which was Jesse's statement (and I'm liberally paraphrasing), "Hey, summer's coming and I need to look hot, so what do you think. Should I work out?" Kinda different than the situations you both explain. And again, that's my chief problem with the way the gay community--for the most part--views physical fitness. They look at it as something that attracts hot guys, and also as something that gives them the "permission" to turn their noses up at anyone who doesn't meet their own requirements of physical perfection.

Another thing that really annoys me is this whole notion that we have no control over our libidos when it comes to seeking out guys who are "hot." A lot of guys like to avoid taking responsibility for their exclusionary sexual practices by saying, "Sorry dude, I just like what I like." Riiiight. And the fact that I love Thai food means that I can't find it in me to appreciate Italian.

Again, there's no judgment on my part for anyone liking muscle (I'm as guilty as the next guy when it comes to seeing a picture of Colin Farrel naked and just fucking MELTING over his body), but I think the more important question, again, is "Is that ALL we like?" Because really, I think when you boil away all the bullshit we like to sling around, I think what one finds attractive is most often dictated by how shallow one may be. When it becomes a REQUIREMENT for considering a relationship that is ideally supposed to be build upon the fundamentals of a deep, soulful connection that transcends the physical, I think it speaks a great deal about the caliber of someone's character.

And that's my point about liking muscle. Sure, let's all look at them and love them. But can't we also look at other things and appreciate them too? Beefy hairy daddies (woof!), hot muscular jocks (slurp!), young lean dudes (sweet), stocky average buddies (yowzers!), smooth pretty boys (hello!). There's a whole range of types out there, and no we don't all have to want to sleep with them all (that's my job, thank you; I'm happy to be the resident slut who embraces all, haha), and I often wonder, Are we so shallow as a community that it's so hard for a lot of us to find beauty and attraction in more than just one group of them?

By the way, no offense at all to you, Jesse. But I'm sure whatever you look like right now, you look just fine. If you wanna look "better," go for it, but don't do it just so you can look better with your shirt off. If we do things in life based on how it might make others perceive ourselves (re: I feel personally validated as a PERSON b/cuz someone wants to fuck me), then I feel we are never really being true to ourselves.

Slade · 09-10-2005, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by basement

My preference is toned, not exaggerated. And Slade I would say straight guys are just as shallow as gay guys.

.

That's true I guess. It is disgusting how they cheat on their wives/girlfriends with another guy!

Um..not that I would know anything about that first hand!

**basschick** · 09-10-2005, 04:49 PM

ken - a guy who only works out for the summer isn't a bodybuilder, and it's impossible that he would get that muscular in a few months. muscle takes time. you're talking about a fit guy who puts on an extra pound of muscle and shows it better because he loses some fat. a lot of pretty fit guys don't show their six packs because of just a little fat - when it's bathing suit time, they diet and voila!

it's not so much just the gay community - straight women are forced into the looks game, too. i have a gorgeous girlfriend who isn't as thin as a model but she isn't even into plus sizes. a guy i know saw her in tight clothes and called her a pig! and this guy is a shapeless ugly lump of a man with the personality of a bridge troll. fat rich webmasters always seem to hook up with model-quality girls - then later, they complain about those girls 'cause the ONLY reason they hooked up with them was as a prestige issue - and those lousy bitches turn out to have their own minds!

most men judge by looks. we don't have to like it, but i suspect that natural selection comes into this. but don't blame bodybuilders - lots of men do this, almost all i know.

the previous is only my opinion and does not reflect anything else...

Slade · 09-10-2005, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

Of course, almost every attraction is based in the beginning on a physical level of some kind. I would not be attracted to a 400-pound hairy dude with missing teeth.

]

Dang..for a minute there I thought I had a chance with you!:goofy: