Which Free AVS works best?

[Xstr8guy]

... but the sites you promote are not your sites in really anyway...

I can only say this so many times Max... but you are wrong. I OWN the vast majority of the content on my AEN sites. I have 100,000 of pics and many dozens of movies on my AEN sites. I have designed all of them myself with the exception of my PrideAccess sites (the have a GREAT designer). At the end of the day, I can turn them into pay sites in about 10 minutes.

I know you seem to think you can only work on a single project at a time. But it's never a bad idea to diversify. Most people will tell you to expand your income-earning potential by expanding into other areas.

[Xstr8guy]

Btw Max, I blame webmasters like you for the demise of the old-style AVS. Webmasters like you just want the traffic from the AVSs so you build dozens of crappy templated sites every week with old, sponsor or public domain content.

You add no value to the AVS at all. You just leach the traffic from other webmasters that actually bring their own traffic to the AVS and submit quality galleries with new and/or exclusive content.

BLEAH!

[marcjacob]

each webmaster works differently. If your running paysites you need to leech abit of avs traffic. I do it all the time, but i also make my sites the best i can with the best design and content i can, so the avs does benefit too even if that particular site doesnt make many sales. its still good content for them.

[Dzinerbear]

The problem with AVS is webmasters who look at it as a traffic source only. If you don't actually try selling the AVS at all and you're just looking for traffic, you're going to find the experience very dissatisfying. Do you really think AVS sites are stupid and don't know everyone wants their traffic? Do you think they just sit back and allow it to happen?

Why do you suppose that AVS/AEN sites have such complicated rules and submission guidelines?

Let's look at Rainbow Passport as an example. If you submit a gallery with even one single traffic leak to a link list or other paysite on the tour pages, your site is approved and dropped to "tier 2." This means your script works, but you don't ever show up in their listings or search engines, so baby, as far as traffic goes, you're on your own. If you submit a clean gallery with no outside traffic leaks, you're a tier 1 and in the search engine. And most AVS/AEN sites work like this. Some like DeluxePass allow no traffic leaks anywhere inside or out.

If you submit crap, they'll happily approve it, this way if some traffic happens to stumble across your site and clicks the join button, they've got your traffic. But crap always sinks to the bottom. They don't show your site in their listings or they bury it so deep that it's at the bottom of 98,000 other sites and no surfer will ever find you.

If you submit galleries that try to sell the AVS/AEN service (and try and upsell their premium products) then you'll earn more favour with the AVS/AEN. They'll list you and rank you higher in their search engines because they recognize you're creating a good product for them.

My best advice to the traffic-seeking webmasters is to simply stop wasting your time building bullshit galleries. You're just burning up your time and money. If you put the effort into creating a better product, you'll (a) make some money off AVS memberships (and what's the difference whether you're getting a cheque from UGAS or Sean Cody) and (b) you'll be able to get more traffic to your site because your gallery's getting more exposure.

AVS is dying only because most webmasters didn't ever figure out how to make them work so they moved on to free sites, TGPs, links lists, paysites, and now blogs and review sites. You know how quickly and how much this business changes, why do you think 1999 tactics are still going to work in 2006?

Cheers,
Michael

[marcjacob]

The problem with AVS is webmasters who look at it as a traffic source only. If you don't actually try selling the AVS at all and you're just looking for traffic, you're going to find the experience very dissatisfying. Do you really think AVS sites are stupid and don't know everyone wants their traffic? Do you think they just sit back and allow it to happen?

Why do you suppose that AVS/AEN sites have such complicated rules and submission guidelines?

Let's look at Rainbow Passport as an example. If you submit a gallery with even one single traffic leak to a link list or other paysite on the tour pages, your site is approved and dropped to "tier 2." This means your script works, but you don't ever show up in their listings or search engines, so baby, as far as traffic goes, you're on your own. If you submit a clean gallery with no outside traffic leaks, you're a tier 1 and in the search engine. And most AVS/AEN sites work like this. Some like DeluxePass allow no traffic leaks anywhere inside or out.

If you submit crap, they'll happily approve it, this way if some traffic happens to stumble across your site and clicks the join button, they've got your traffic. But crap always sinks to the bottom. They don't show your site in their listings or they bury it so deep that it's at the bottom of 98,000 other sites and no surfer will ever find you.

If you submit galleries that try to sell the AVS/AEN service (and try and upsell their premium products) then you'll earn more favour with the AVS/AEN. They'll list you and rank you higher in their search engines because they recognize you're creating a good product for them.

My best advice to the traffic-seeking webmasters is to simply stop wasting your time building bullshit galleries. You're just burning up your time and money. If you put the effort into creating a better product, you'll (a) make some money off AVS memberships (and what's the difference whether you're getting a cheque from UGAS or Sean Cody) and (b) you'll be able to get more traffic to your site because your gallery's getting more exposure.

AVS is dying only because most webmasters didn't ever figure out how to make them work so they moved on to free sites, TGPs, links lists, paysites, and now blogs and review sites. You know how quickly and how much this business changes, why do you think 1999 tactics are still going to work in 2006?

Cheers,
Michael

i know your not really aiming that solely at me, but i did say that i allways build quality sites to the best of my ability.

i do try to sell avs passwords, my problem is that im crap with google so i end up sending tgp traffic which doesnt convert as well allthough i make avs sales and see it as a bonus.

i also upsell to premium avs, so i do benefit the avs in many ways.

do i think avs's are stupid? yep - look through the links list of any avs and see the shite they except.

whats the difference bewteen a ugas check and sean cody check? well i wouldnt piss on ugas if they were on fire. i certainly wouldnt sell my soul to them (allthough i think dave is an ace guy). so thats a bad example for me, but in general i welcome checks from avs's, i just welcome checks from sponors too. the avs does very nicley from webmasters so wheres the harm in us getting more back? they are not our friends. there in it to make cold hard cash and so am i. they use us and we use them. both the avs and the contributors benefit.

[Dzinerbear]

Actually Marc, my comments weren't directly at you personally or specifically. But rather I was addressing the pervasive attitude that the only thing AVS is good for is getting traffic, but that doesn't work. It's a fallacy. Most AVS hubs stop webmasters dead in their tracks, they only think they're pulling one over on the AVS.

It's like TGPs, if you cheat, you either get a reputation or you get banned. Short-sightedness doesn't get webmasters anywhere.

Cheers
Michael

[maxpower]

each webmaster works differently. If your running paysites you need to leech abit of avs traffic. I do it all the time, but i also make my sites the best i can with the best design and content i can, so the avs does benefit too even if that particular site doesnt make many sales. its still good content for them.

Yes I do the same I understand I try to offer sites their members will like, that was ok a few years ago but most AVS has not changed in 5 years and they blame us for their poor conversion numbers now. The whole thing is a joke, I am supposed to waist my traffic on a program that converts less than 40% of what I could get from that traffic, “with out any other filtering allowed as well” and for less money on each sale. They want everything and give back almost nothing in return. Who care about their Mickey Mouse :gaydays: sales, I mean I am sure some still try really hard to promote just 1 AVS and do ok with rare themes but that is allot of work for a company that really gives you nothing and expects you to do all their work for them. Its a good idea to just create a directory and except everyone to provide you with all the content, sites, traffic, themes, sales, ECT while you take most of the money, but most people are now not going to play that game anymore.

[maxpower]

Btw Max, I blame webmasters like you for the demise of the old-style AVS. Webmasters like you just want the traffic from the AVSs so you build dozens of crappy templated sites every week with old, sponsor or public domain content.

You add no value to the AVS at all. You just leach the traffic from other webmasters that actually bring their own traffic to the AVS and submit quality galleries with new and/or exclusive content.

BLEAH!

LOL ya I am going to run right out and provide some AVS sites with exclusive or brand new content, you must be joking. Hell do I get to suck their dick at the same time too?

[marcjacob]

If webmasters submit crappy templted sites and thats destroying avs, why do the avs's take those sites? If AVS porn needs re branding then the avs's themeselves need to lead that. Looking at the links lists, they dont seem to care.

Personally i dont submit templated sites when leaching. Ive worked out that i get more traffic from less but better quality sites. Going for top tier gets more traffic = more hits to my paysite = more sales for me, and as a side product of that, the surfer gets a better website with better porn. its win win all arround imo.

i certainly dont feel sorry for the avs's, most of which are multi million dollar companies getting richer off the backs of us poorer and probably much harder working webmasterws. they also ultimately choose which sites to except so imo, they take the blame for having link lists full of crap.

[maxpower]

Ya they created this monster, and now want to blame others for it. The thing is its not worth the time to create the supper type of sites you talk about if it was people would do it allot more. In fact if the took down all the sites you talk about they would have almost nothing to promote. Everyone is trying to make a living, if it was really the best way to go they would be doing it. As it stands now AVS is less than 10% of my sales and I expect them to be 5% or less in a few years.

The only reason you have to make template sites as far as some of the designs is that if you can not create a huge amount of them you can not get any traffic or money from doing it at all. I do try to change it up, and create a whole new template every 6 months or so but again its not worth the time to do much more.

[marcjacob]

Ya they created this monster, and now want to blame others for it. The thing is its not worth the time to create the supper type of sites you talk about if it was people would do it allot more. In fact if the took down all the sites you talk about they would have almost nothing to promote. Everyone is trying to make a living, if it was really the best way to go they would be doing it. As it stands now AVS is less than 10% of my sales and I expect them to be 5% or less in a few years.

The only reason you have to make template sites as far as some of the designs is that if you can not create a huge amount of them you can not get any traffic or money from doing it at all. I do try to change it up, and create a whole new template every 6 months or so but again its not worth the time to do much more.

where do the rest of it come from?

[maxpower]

where do the rest of it come from?

I guess you are talking about super high quality sites in AVS, I would say most come from webmaster experimenting and finding its not worth the trouble, and they can do allot better with smaller sites.

[realtoughbear]

LOL ya I am going to run right out and provide some AVS sites with exclusive or brand new content, you must be joking. Hell do I get to suck their dick at the same time too?

I do that all the time. Some of my avs sites with only one set of exclusive content convert at 1:50. Drive 10,000 uniques to it and you make a nice ROI.

[maxpower]

I do hear allot that bear and some other rare content still does ok with some AVS, but still not sure I would be providing them with exclusive content but that is all up to you man. I have experimented with many many different types of “twink” AVS sites and must say I make 3X+ as much from the spongers I run in them than the program themselves, now all this would be ok, but they now do not have much traffic anymore and are expecting way to much from us. I can only get so many sites accepted in a directory at a time so I have to go with he biggest bang for my buck, and I would much rather run a free sites than a AVS any day for a huge number of reasons.

[Xstr8guy]

LOL ya I am going to run right out and provide some AVS sites with exclusive or brand new content, you must be joking. Hell do I get to suck their dick at the same time too?

Just how often do I have to make a point to you before it sinks in? We've had this discussion before and it's getting very tiring.

I buy content... exclusive, semi-exclusive and non-exclusive and I use it as many ways as possible. I have probably spent over $100,000 on content in the past 2 or 3 years. Why not use it 50 times in different venues?

Now I know buying content is a new concept for you since until very recently you used "borrowed" and/or "public domain" content. But once you have reinvested a large portion of your income in content, you will never understand.