And BTW not so sure that it was all the drag queens that really did all that, after all just showing and taking about the drag queens being involved/leading is just another way to discredit our rights/views, that could have back fired. But again like I said I was not really around then, but do know how this stuff works now.
WOW!
Seems to me that some of the folk yammerin' on about stereotypes are actually guilty of it (stereotyping), themselves! And while I am @ it: they are also guilty of some fairly horrid assumptions (straight guys in general are all the typical YEEHAH-LETS-GET-A-ROPE-REDNECK assholes th@ must fight in order to protect their "manly hood", yadda yadda).
To th@ I say: *holding up an open hand, fingers extended forward, in front of your face* pfff ... like whatever - way to join the crowd ... of bigots!
I could not care any less about a person's sexual orientation/preference, and, as far as I am concerned, I do not need to know because IT simply doesn't matter (nor should it)!
Regarding th@ hair product and what they've accepted: all I can say is, IF any of you are truly offended, then stop using it - boycott it, and ask all your friends to, as well.
Unless you do not mind living the life of a hypocrite, and believe the product is more important to you.
As for me: that advert/site/whatever reminds me of the actions of the clueless webmaster, whom, although is not gay, promotes gay sites... poorly.
You know, th@ text I'm going on about: Check out this faggot having gay sex in his ass.
Maybe if they had a bear it would be as butch as the Christopher Lowell show.
To me the guys just look like another regurgitated “inner city, New York, we so set the fashion” set of queens. Much like the queer eye guys or Clinton Kelly from “What not to Wear”
Why do stereotypes suck so much? Because there are so many different types of people, if all you see is a stereotype then you may not give the real person a chance. And we shouldn't all have to be exactly the same, how boring would that be? I'm a leatherman with a mohawk, and I know gay men who are manly bears, effeminate queens, effeminate bears who drive trucks for a living, butch dykes, lipstick lesbians, guys who are very manly until they have a few beers then a purse falls out of their mouth, illiterate gay men (yes, I misspelled effeminate about 20 times in my last post), and many others. It's called DIVERSITY. Why be ashamed by it.
On the other hand. I know Mr. And Mrs. Straight Laced, hetero America (my parents) but I also know straight guys who lips and swish, are metrosexual, will be all manly but take it up the ass after a few drinks, paint their bodies and make total asses out of themselves at football games, butch straight women who love men but would put some bull dykes to shame with their use of power tools, strong willed businesswomen who would put any man in his place and many others. Should we consider these people to be an embarassment to the straight community. No, not at all. As different as all these people are they are all normal straight people. So why be ashamed that we have just as many diverse gay people?
And one last thing on the subject of leatherfolk. I think it's funny that gay people will rag on gay leathermen as making the community look bad when there are just as many, if not more, straight leatherfolk! The only difference is that we have already been through the stigma of being seen as freaks just for being gay so we may as well celebrate everything about ourselves by being ourselves in public, where as our straight brethren have to worry about losing jobs, having kids taken away from them and being ousted from their community. Sound familliar? Only through education about ourselves and our various types of lifestyles will people get to know us and no longer be afraid of us, which in turn will help calm the fires of violence and hatred.
In short, we need to stop hating ourselves before anyone else will stop hating us.
Don Mike
DonMikeCali@gmail.com
They suck just as much as, if not more than, classes &/or categories!Originally Posted by DonMike
Hun, are you actually surprised that there are gay bigots? Yah, it's just as fucked as racial minorities oppressing sexual minorities, but it happens, a lot!
And let's not even get in to the gay NIMBY'ists!
I was just waiting for someone to use the B word, I am really run down now so my argument is not going to be that good, but I will leave you with this. With out classes we would all be communists
Night all :boring:
To those at pride parades and events for the purpose of celebrating diversity, etc. be it dressed in drag, leather, beads, Harry Potter costumes, as the Hamburglar, whatever... then more power to them.
I stare at some leather guys too much, myself. :biker:
But I think there's also a difference between celebrating diversity and exposing fetishes in public, having sex in public like a lot of parades/events bring, and some take it too far, IMO.
Does that make me intolerant? I mean I wouldn't feel too guilty if someone told me, "You're a bigot for not tolerating my X-induced frenzy of public streetcorner blowjobs and beer-piss drinking." 'Cause I'd be reluctant to believe they're celebrating anything bigger than their orgasms.
Not that I'm against blowjobs and beer piss in general. :jasun:
There are lots of gay men that wouldn't touch a pride event with a 10 foot pole. We all know 'em. That doesn't always mean they're self-hating or unappreciative of those that stood up at Stonewall or anything like that. Many just don't feel represented well. or they're way deep in the closet.
I'm helping on a great play that will hopefully start to run off-broadway in the fall. It opens up a good discussion on sexuality. It's all about people finding their place, exposing the shades of gray, even in straight people. There have been some readings for it already, and it's getting a great reaction. I hope anyone in the NYC area will see it. Gay, straight, both or neither.
Mike, would you be surprised to find out I agreed with you? Well, to some extent anyway.
Marching in leather is one thing. But we don't run around having sex during the parade or grabbing people out of the audience and hitting them with floggers (well, not unless they ask nicely). But I do not condone gay people at pride festivals getting sloppy drunk, having sex in public places, whipping their dicks out or being offensive any more than I like to see men and women making out in shopping malls, or getting sloppy drunk at football games, or women flashing their boobs at passing cars. It's not an issue of being straight or gay,it's an issue of just being offensive, period. There's a time and a place for such things.
And leatherfolk showing our pride at the gay pride events is important because we are ostracized by a lot of the gay community the way that gay people are often ostracized by the straight community. We are a minority within a minority. We don't want to change anybody, we don't want to throw our lifestyles in anybody's faces, we just want to say, "Hey, we're here and we're a part of this community too".
Although I will fight for the right for men to wear chaps with only a jockstrap on underneath because women have been wearing thong bikinis to the beach for ages. If they can show off their asses, why can't we? :donmike:
Don Mike
DonMikeCali@gmail.com
TH@ is what I was referring to, when I used the acronym NIMBY (Not In My Backyard): many want to be given something (recognition, time, attention, privileges etc), yet they turn around and refuse to extend "it" to others, whom are merely asking for the exact same thing (the right and freedom to do as ALL others), simply because THEY do not like, or agree with, it, or feel their feeble existence is threatened.
DonMike, I've learned enough about you here in the past year that you're a smart and reasonable person. And whatever point you bring is a valid one.
I tried to qualify what i was saying as best I could. I did specifically want to say that I knew it was just a subset of the populous that got involved in those types of things. For some reason in my post editing, that slipped through. But I do know that many, many people there don't do that stuff.
More power to those that are there for the right reasons.
Well, at least now we have a good idea about how black people throw themselves into unending arguments over what it is to "look black"
I didn't find the site offensive. Have you seen Designer Guys on cable?
Honestly, effeminicy doesn't really register with me. Also, back in the days when I had the time to cruise online, if people put things in their profiles like "masc" or "straight acting" or "no femmes" I pretty much concluded that they would be very dull in bed..(a theory that I corroborated for awhile) ... so I'd keep on looking.
Steve :cigarette:
I've never dressed in drag, but I know if I did I would crack up laughing the whole time. :beauty: The same thing in this situation I think, but on a totally different level. :haha:
Don, you're a leather man with a mohawk, you of all people know that you can't change the way people will interpret you. The only thing you can do is be true to yourself. You are the perfect example of how to combat this kind of Gay stereotype in society.
Sunsilk is shelling out $200 million dollars on a Gay themed product launch in the states at a time when conservatives have been flexing their muscle in every facet of our society.
The three actors in the commercial are Gay. They are Ethan Mechare, Micah McCain and Robbie Laughlin. McCain has performed at comedy clubs, while Laughlin has appeared on 'Queer Eye for the Straight Girl'.
The reason Sunsilk decided to go Gay was after extensive market research they found that women are less likely to listen to women because of the jealousy factor, but love listening to their Gay friends for advice and tips.
A great topic you've brought up with lots of valuable opinions posted here. I for one really want to support Sunsilk now, even though the whole format for that hairapy was so wrong in so many ways. How do you feel?
Here is some more info on the new sunsilk product launch:
SheFinds News: Sunsilk Launch is Happy and Gay
The Republican American Newspaper - When TV commercials go gay (These guys are really pissed off that Sunsilk is launching this new $200 million Gay themed campaign)
Signs of the times - 'Queer Eye' Approach to Marketing Shampoo
Well, thank you for that very informative post. So I guess I shouldn't be offended at the characters on the show since they are played by gay men. I should be offended that they are such shitty characters.
I like Queer Eye. I think Carson is adorable in his comments and mannerisms. He's effeminate but he's real. I love the commedian Ant. Have you seen his show? He goes all across America talking to gay people he finds in the most unlikely of places. He would hardly be mistaken for a straight guy, and in his comedy routine he really plays up his fem mannerisms, but still he's very real. These guys, wether they are gay or straight, are playing these characters like over the top stereotypes but not for comedic effect. Unless that was the point and I just missed it entirely. Is it supposed to be a big joke?
Don Mike
DonMikeCali@gmail.com
Mike, thank you for that. You did an excellent job of making your point. I love discussions like this because it's a little out of the norm, everyone has a chance to voice their opinions and there are no wrong or write answers. This is conversation at it's finest, and thank you all for participating, and especially for disagreeing with me when you felt the need to. I hate when people just agree to everything without even thinking about it. I think that's one of the drawbacks of our modern age. People accept things too easily and are afraid to really think about a topic. Or afraid to admit they were wrong. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if I think I am. I totally admit I took that commercial as a bunch of homophobic straight guys making fun of gay guys. Maybe I am too sensitive. I still think it's offensive. But to show just how twisted I am, if it were on a comedy show I would have probably found it to be really funny. I used to love when the Wayans brothers did "Men On", and that was as offensive and stereotypical as you can get, but it was funny as hell. So yeah. I'm a little off, I guess. LOL!
Don Mike
DonMikeCali@gmail.com
I haven't seen Ant but sounds funny!
I don't know if the Sunsilk thing was supposed to be a big joke but Micah McCain (one of the guys) is a commedian. Here he is pasted below promoting one of his shows. I think that's him in drag on the shave gel can:
He's an L.A. guy and performs in West Hollywood according to his site: http://www.micahmccain.com/news.html
Here is his blog... ask him if he was camping it up http://shutupiknow.blogspot.com/
But to be honest I think he's just being himself. This is him in another project, and him just being himself:
Now that I think about it.... one of the things that makes the Sunsilk hairapy thing so off the cuff is the color scheme. Take the guys are they are dressed, change the color scheme to earth tones (for example) and it gives them a totally different feel, but I dunno I'm no the designer type
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