Non Recurring Memberships - Maintaining A Balance?

[realtoughbear]

So, by your logic in this post, and the others in this thread, popups, unders, back button pages, spam, seeling email lists of previous customers, and anything else to maximize profit is good. YET you don't promote sites with what you call "leaks" or non recurring options?

It seems the way you see business is all about making you money, and less about maintaining a balance with your customers. I'm not judging you as everyone has different ethics and reasons for their belief systems.

I believe in one thing. Treat your customers/members with the respect that they deserve and you will make money.

I was distric manager for a pizza chain right out of college. I always told my managers to put on a little extra cheese (the most expensive part of a pizza). Give your customers that best you can and they will come back.

I never looked at my customer as a number.

Never do to this day.....

[realtoughbear]

i worked with a str8 program that put up a bunch of fhg's. 3 days after the galleries were announced, they were using over $1500 of bandwidth per day. and while they did make sales, it was necessary to move the galleries to much cheaper bandwidth which i had recommended in advance, but the program owner wanted the galleries to have the same quality bandwidth as the paysites were using.

galleries are very bandwidth intensive and i've seen programs go under because of their fhg bandwidth.

I remember the day when a gallery on the Hun would cost you $100 in bandwith.

If programs go under because of bandwith, then one of two things has happened.

1. They are paying way too much for their bandwith.

2. Their sites just don't convert on the galleries that they themselves created. If they tested it extensively beforehand, they probably wouldnt have that problem... I mean how hard is it for a program owner to create the galleries and buy the absolute shittiest traffic possible and throw at them and see what happens before they release the galleries to all their affiliates.

[realtoughbear]

I'm curious as to what people think about the ethics involved in offering different options to surfers based on where they were referred from.

For example, is it entirely ethical for a surfer to not be given any idea that:

- Others are able to join at a non-recurring option
- Others are able to not see exit consoles/upsells/popups
- Others are being given cheaper join options

I think this question certainly falls within the scope of this discussion. It's just that... all too often I think many of the demands of certain affiliates can result in surfers being treated unfairly.

Corbin,

You bring up a VERY good point. Is it ethical to the surfer? Bottom line - no.

I use Pimproll extensively for one main reason - I can control the price. I know what price plan I can toss an AEN member into, which is different than what I can toss a tgp surfer into, which is different than what my very first banner on my link list will go into, which is different than what .... you get the idea. It's about maximizing revenue in my case.

But then ethics works both ways. You have to ask yourself is it ethical to an affilaite who can send you 100 signups a month to send X% of them into a program that he gets nothing but 1/2 the first month minus processing fees.

I am NOT saying this against you at all. Just that you brought up ethics.

IMHO IF a program insists on offering a join page that offers a non recur option than that progra should be either offering a way that the webmaster can elect not to send to a join page with a non recur (webmasters should know their traffic enough to know if it will convert w/o it) or IF the program insists on a non recur, then they should offer PPS.

There are a couple sites out there that I would love to market and could send a 100 or so signups a month to, but can't justify it because of low per cost members on other sites that used this model. it just doesn't work for me.

[Lee]

You bring up a VERY good point. Is it ethical to the surfer? Bottom line - no.

But then...

I use Pimproll extensively for one main reason - I can control the price. I know what price plan I can toss an AEN member into, which is different than what I can toss a tgp surfer into, which is different than what my very first banner on my link list will go into, which is different than what .... you get the idea. It's about maximizing revenue in my case.

So it isnt ethical in your opinion yet.. you do it anyway?

Regards,

Lee

[realtoughbear]

But then...



So it isnt ethical in your opinion yet.. you do it anyway?

Regards,

Lee

It is unethical IMHO, but yes I do it. I do it for the money. The option is there for me and their sites convert.

But the fact in this case is every member that joins is getting a different price anyways. So what price do I choose if given the option. The one that makes me the most money.

IF you ask me I would love to see Pimproll just offer the $14.95 monthly option. It converts like a mother fucker for me. But I am sure it wont happen.

So to market their sites I have to play their game.

Do I feel good about it? My pocket does. But as far as the customer goes, no I am not happy. To my link list surfers (the ones I really care about) I gave what I thought was the best deal for them. Actually I gave them two pricing options....

[Squirt]

Cpncerning points others made. Squirt said that a crappy site should offer a high one month price. Not true. A really good site should offer it if they want to make money. They know damn well their product is good. Like she did. They know that after the surfers membership expires they will join again. And they know they don't have to split it with anyone.

No, I didn't say that at all.

I said "Offering non recurring memberships at a higher premium is a good move for sites with limited or stale content."

A site with kick ass content, that's limited, can benefit from a higher priced non recurring option. A site with kick ass content, that's stale (not updated) can benefit from a higher priced non recurring option.

These sites have members that like the content, but because it's limited, or not updated often, will want a one month subscription, then come back when notified of updates.

A paysite owner has two customers. The members and the affiliates. Most paysites would have few members without affiliates.

No, that's not correct.

Members are customers.

Affiliates are business partners.

Customers are what make a business, and business partners, money.

[Lee]

It is unethical IMHO, but yes I do it. I do it for the money.

How much would it cost me for you to sell out your other ethics?

Ethics that can be bought are not worth having at all imho.

Regards,

Lee

[realtoughbear]

How much would it cost me for you to sell out your other ethics?

Ethics that can be bought are not worth having at all imho.

Regards,

Lee

People sell their ethics every day. Some realize it, some don't. And some will never even understand what i just said.....

[realtoughbear]

How much would it cost me for you to sell out your other ethics?

Ethics that can be bought are not worth having at all imho.

Regards,

Lee

Lee,

To be honest with you Lee. I don't see much ethics in this business all that much anymore.

I think many of us have done something in this business that deep down we feel is ethically wrong but did it anyways. maybe not.

My marketing a paysite at different price points to a consumer when I feel it's ethically wrong to charge consumers different prices to make some money is really nothing. If I followed my true ethics I wouldn't be in porn.

The ethics I use in the way I treat my friends, family, business partners, and people that I don't know who I choose to help can't be bought. I give half of my poker winning to charity because I feel that it's the ethically right thing to do...


Here a link to my friend and poker mentor if you feel inclined
http://barrygreenstein.com/charities.htm

[Squirt]

People sell their ethics every day. Some realize it, some don't. And some will never even understand what i just said.....

So wouldn't your ethics dictate that your loyalties are to your customer, who's puting money in your pocket? Bottom line they are the ones you're loyal to right?

[realtoughbear]

So wouldn't your ethics dictate that your loyalties are to your customer, who's puting money in your pocket? Bottom line they are the ones you're loyal to right?

Yes it is.

On paysites I have run my customers were number one. Videos I filmed I even gave them the tools to burn their own VCD's. I went out of my way for my customers. Hell, my sex life become public on a webcam and I was talking on aim to my customers. (My BF had a personal cam site). i also went out of my way to the handful of affiliates I had.

Surfers who I have earned their trust, I treat with respect. In the case of pimproll I gave them what I felt was the best deal even though i made less money... Though what I thought I was making the less money on I actually made more as I found the $15 a month converted like crazy.

The "problem" I guess with a program like Pimproll's is I actually find value in their sites compared to 80% of the other sites out there. There is a lot of good quality content and I can offer a $14.95 price per month that actually makes me the most money. And gives them good value.

I guess at the end of the day I can live with myself by marketing a site that has what i consider to be a good value to the consumer at $14.95 a month even though other consumers are paying $24.95 a month after they rebill from the trial. (Which I ultimately feel everybody should be offered the same price. But then again I also feel Al Gore won the election. So what do I know?)

But if that is the biggest question I have about my ethics I am not all that concerned. Both surfers are getting good value which is more than I can say for 80% of the sites out there.....

[djdez]

I'm curious as to what people think about the ethics involved in offering different options to surfers based on where they were referred from.

For example, is it entirely ethical for a surfer to not be given any idea that:

- Others are able to join at a non-recurring option
- Others are able to not see exit consoles/upsells/popups
- Others are being given cheaper join options

I think this question certainly falls within the scope of this discussion. It's just that... all too often I think many of the demands of certain affiliates can result in surfers being treated unfairly.

I really don't see a problem with that. Lets take hotel guests booking a room for example:

1. call the hotel directly for a room: $200
2. Call the hotel but say you're a triple A member: $180
3. Book online at the hotel directly: $190
4. Book online at the hotel through orbitz: $185
5. Book through priceline.com: $110

Mainstream companies offer different prices to different customers and many times its relative to who refered them or how they contacted the company.

[realtoughbear]

Mainstream companies offer different prices to different customers and many times its relative to who refered them or how they contacted the company.

Actually just goto Dell.com and the same item will be a different price depending on if you chose to shop in the home section or the small business section.

[realtoughbear]

Check out the second monitor

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