Epoch or CCbill, and why... POLL

[Lee]

For me it comes down to ease of use for affiliates and where i feel comfortable personally.

There is no doubt that more affiliate webmasters have a CCBill account than have Epoch account and that more affiliates feel more comfortable with using and joining CCBill programs.

Of course Epoch are now going after the gay market with a vengence but imho i do think it is to little to late, whilst both processors have their pro's and con's i also communicate better with the folks at CCBill on all levels, and always have done.

I can only really think of 1 time where i have ever had a 'conversation' with Rand, that was in San Diego a few years ago, on the other hand, i have spoken to numerous CCBill reps over the years, for good lengths of time, about a wide range of different subjects, even before i was a client of theirs.

That being said, i wouldnt say that my opinion on either processor was based on being friendly with anyone at either company, in fact, whilst i would say ive made some great contacts at CCBill, i wouldnt call any of them 'friends' in the true sense of the word... More aquaintances.

Im in business to make money not friends, sure making friends is a great by-product of doing good business but if i want to make friends, id be down the pub, not running a business.

Most reps at most companies (processors, hosts, sponsors) know how to talk-the-talk at the shows, just as i do, however, im going to go with whoever makes me the most money long-term, across different revenue streams because after all, once the shows are are over you are just another potential client that was spoken to at a show to justify the expense of sending the rep to the show in the first place.

You also have to look at how a company aligns itself and who it aligns itself with in the industry. Again for the most part this is part of 'playing the game' but when it comes down to it, im going to choose whomever i feel more comfortable doing business with and for me, right now thats CCBill.

Choosing a company based on how 'gay' they, or their reps are is a bad way to make business decisions imho.

Regards,

Lee

[LiveTwinksCam]

I will never use CCBill, I met the owners daughter twice, once at a private party here in FL and once at a convention and she was a freaking rude snob both times. So for that reason alone I will never use CCBill.

[basschick]

me, i couldn't care less if someone's daughter, who isn't even involved inthe business, is rude. all that matters is whether the companies i work with do well for my business. i'm sure we all have asshole relatives but i expect to be judged by how i do business - not whether my relatives are assholes.

ccbill has 24/7 phone support from people who have always been courteous and there's corvett on icq when i need that extra little bit of info. they also pay on time and are popular with both webmasters and surfers.

at this moment in time, they have one other feature i need - although rand says that will soon be available with epoch. rand, btw, if you see this thread, is there any word on that yet? and will you please add me as a friend on adult who's who?

I will never use CCBill, I met the owners daughter twice, once at a private party here in FL and once at a convention and she was a freaking rude snob both times. So for that reason alone I will never use CCBill.

[LiveTwinksCam]

She is involved in the business and she was representing the business, that is why she was at the private party for the adult industry and that is why she was at the convention in Hollywood FL, which were the two places I mentioned.

[chadknowslaw]

I will choose a company based on how diverse it is, the causes it supports, its service to the communities it is in. I won't shop at Wal Mart. I checked the HRC scores for automakers before buying my truck --eliminating Nissan from the list of possibilities because of their dismal diversity score. I won't make my decision based on those diverse issues--I won't buy crap just because the company is run by lesbians and donates money to AIDS charities--but there are a lot of factors in that decision and good citizenship is just one.

Lee makes his choice only on factors that directly affect the bottom line, which is certainly reasonable. However, when all other things are equal, I want to patronize companies that are diverse in their workforce. And Lee, you are always welcome in my neighborhood.

[Lee]

However, when all other things are equal, I want to patronize companies that are diverse in their workforce.

But what about when even that is equal?

CCBill does have gay employess and reps to this day.

Regards,

Lee

[chadknowslaw]

I don't see them as equal. I am not aware of CC Bill management-level or sales rep that is openly gay. Other than Sherri, they are all straight white men. Great guys, but it is a factor I would use to judge the company. Like I said above, it is one factor of many and I won't buy crap just because the company is diverse or environmentally conscious.

However, if all things are equal, then move on to more factors. Does one company donate money to save spotted owls and the other donates to no charity?
Has one company been in business longer than the other?
Is one a member of the Better Business Bureau and the other not?

If all things are equal, it is not hard to find another yardstick to move your preference to one.

[maxpower]

Yes Epoch having good in-house gay representation is a BIG factor for any gay site owner. Just being familiar with available gay content and language we use could save many of you allot of headaches TRUST ME on this one :rain:

[ccjax]

I have not been on the boards as of yet, so this thread seems as good a time as any to jump in.

I have to thank Lee for his comments, as they are similar to my thoughts on this. Just as I would not vote for a politician solely because he or she is gay, I would not choose a service that directly affects my bottom line because someone in the company management is a friend of Dorothy.

I am an openly gay employee at CCBill, and it is a terrific environment to work in, since it doesn’t matter what your sexual orientation is - it is what you contribute to the company that matters here. I have had a great time meeting a lot of our clients, both current and future, at the recent Internext Expo in Vegas and the GAYVN Summit/Awards this past weekend in SF. Good discussions at both events on how to leverage both payment systems for to make the most of their businesses.

CCBill obviously sees the visible financial investment by other players in marketing and promotions, ie - logo'd pens, luggage tags, and sponsorships of gay events, and we do fully support their efforts. But while we have not been investing in logo'd giveaways at these events, we have been working behind the scenes on development of our application services to increase the bottom line of our clients, such as our asset management solution and the latest in streaming technologies and stats.
Plus, I can be the first to talk about the upcoming releases of our next generation of CCBill tools and services, which is due to roll out over the next few months - including our new Web Marketing Service (think Affiliate System on steroids), a totally NEW user-friendly Admin with cascading functionality, digital store front builder/shopping cart and global load balancing on all transactions, to ensure 100% up time...not to mention our Gateway services for Merchant Accounts.

OK – blah, blah, blah - total company ad – but hope you can see that we have reinvested in our company, building our tools to support online business – gay and straight.

It is terrific to read the perspectives and discussion, but I personally would rather have more tools for my business than another branded neck pillow.

[maxpower]

I just wonder how many of the Ccbill votes in this poll were made by people that work for them :morning: I am not sure what support they give others all I can say is they told me that I could not use some of the most famous gay models in the world on my tour or in my members area. And they did not care about any facts I could provide them, I guess it came down to me not being able to use the same 100% legal content others could and do use every day. :hmm:

[Lee]

all I can say is they told me that I could not use some of the most famous gay models in the world on my tour or in my members area.

No they didnt, they told you that you couldnt represent those images as child porn, which is what you were doing and everyone on GWW knows this.

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

No they didnt, they told you that you couldnt represent those images as child porn, which is what you were doing and everyone on GWW knows this.

Regards,

Lee

This is NOT true, I was more than open to change any text, (that really was no big deal) How could I represent and content as CP inside my members area? Its not like I was telling people they are 12 year olds, all I did was list the images in the sets.

[maxpower]

Personally I will never trust them again, I can not build my sites with a company that could turn on me at any moment. If it comes down to it I would use NATS, and have processors that will have my back, rather than gambling on what they might say looks like CP next, and forcing me to remove exclusive or even non exclusive content that I worked hard to create from my members area just to keep my account open. Sure if you run Hunk sites, this is NP but anyone that runs Twink sites should be aware of this.

[gaybucks_chip]

Your loss, Max.

We've been through that a dozen times. They didn't turn on you, you submitted text at one point, the completed tour with text at another, and the combination of the text and pics made a tour that was uncomfortably close to CP in ccbill's opinion. It's possible they are just a little more conservative, but honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing at all... they're just doing their best to ensure they have a good relationship with the Visa association, which is ultimately to everyone's advantage.

[maxpower]

Your loss, Max.

We've been through that a dozen times. They didn't turn on you, you submitted text at one point, the completed tour with text at another, and the combination of the text and pics made a tour that was uncomfortably close to CP in ccbill's opinion. It's possible they are just a little more conservative, but honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing at all... they're just doing their best to ensure they have a good relationship with the Visa association, which is ultimately to everyone's advantage.

I am really not trying to start to much crap over this, but most of you guys have NO idea how hard I did try to make them happy. This included offering to change ANY text, I even was open to replacing the models in the tour they had a problem with, and of course I have ID’s and could show where ALL the content came from (please keep in mind I gave them a VERY clean 1 page tour to start with) None of this was satisfactory to their Bank, the bank was really the problem here. I was told I could not use about 30% of the image sets I had including like I said before some of the most famous twink models in the world even inside my members area.

I am really sad about this, and it was VERY frustrating playing this guess how old he looks to me BS, but I am glad I found out now before I had 500-1000 recurring members with them. People are really taking this CP crap too far here lately when someone’s Opinion that does not even work or have any idea about our industry has the final word on what’s acceptable and what’s not.

Now I will say they did inform me months ago that they are open now to rereview the site, and I would love to us both of these guys. I just hate to have my hands tied, or to have to worry about one morning having my account deactivated because some guy that works in a bank does not like my 100% legal models. I have to think just a little bit all this is a loss for more than just me :crybaby: