Epoch or CCbill, and why... POLL

[Fatal Attractio]

This is a really tough call.

Three months ago, I would have said, without question, ccbill because they had the better affiliate software. But now Epoch has MPA-3 with cascading billing for free, and that's a pretty persuasive feature.

CCBill seems to have a little more depth in technical support, but I've never had a problem that Epoch couldn't resolve promptly.

And... Epoch has Patrick, who is a great resource and a strong supporter of the gay adult community (who, of course, Epoch stole from CCBill) and Rainey, formerly of Pridebucks.

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either company, but I gotta say that Epoch is pulling out all the stops to get gay business.

I definetly say Epoch, especially now with there new mpa-3 deal for free. I was just at the gay avn show, and epoch was there in full force! Ccbill didn't even have one rep there!

[Lee]

I definetly say Epoch, especially now with there new mpa-3 deal for free. I was just at the gay avn show, and epoch was there in full force! Ccbill didn't even have one rep there!

Indeed they didnt and you know why?

Because the Epoch/AVN show sponsorship contract has a clause which says no competitors can sponsor the show.

That means that NO other billing company or webmaster publication can sponsor any of the shows.

Despite the fact that AVN and Epoch have been happy to attend all of the CCBill functions for years.

Regards,

Lee

[ccjax]

Indeed they didnt and you know why?

Because the Epoch/AVN show sponsorship contract has a clause which says no competitors can sponsor the show.

That means that NO other billing company or webmaster publication can sponsor any of the shows.

Despite the fact that AVN and Epoch have been happy to attend all of the CCBill functions for years.

Regards,

Lee

Guys, CCBill did have a rep at the GAYVN Summit - me! I just wasn't on any panels...

But I met some terrific people at the sessions and the parties - but obviously, I didn't meet all of you.

[chadknowslaw]

Indeed they didnt and you know why?

Because the Epoch/AVN show sponsorship contract has a clause which says no competitors can sponsor the show.

That means that NO other billing company or webmaster publication can sponsor any of the shows.

Despite the fact that AVN and Epoch have been happy to attend all of the CCBill functions for years.

Regards,

Lee

If this is true that would be very immature behavior on their part. XBiz does not shut out AVN from the XBiz shows, CC Bill does not shut out other processors from theirs. I thought only junior high girls would have a party where the girlfriend of their ex-boyfriend isn't invited to come.

Lee, where did you get this nasty bit of info from??

[Lee]

Lee, where did you get this nasty bit of info from??

Where the info came from is of no matter, just that its fact is all that is really of concern right now, at least until it is rectified

Regards,

Lee

[chadknowslaw]

Where the info came from is of no matter, just that its fact is all that is really of concern right now, at least until it is rectified

Regards,

Lee

Oh, I wasn't trying to plug you for your source I was just trying to determine if it was credible. I don't know if you noticed, but there IS gossip on boards that is untrue sometimes....

If it is true, they should be slapped. If it is just rumor, well then.... no harm

:-)

[Lee]

Oh, I wasn't trying to plug you for your source I was just trying to determine if it was credible. I don't know if you noticed, but there IS gossip on boards that is untrue sometimes....

If it is true, they should be slapped. If it is just rumor, well then.... no harm

:-)

Well right now i have absolutely no doubts about its credibility.

Would be interesting if we could get Epoch/AVN to say that other processors and/or webmaster publications are able to sponsor their event in October.

Regards,

Lee

[chadknowslaw]

Well right now i have absolutely no doubts about its credibility.

Would be interesting if we could get Epoch/AVN to say that other processors and/or webmaster publications are able to sponsor their event in October.

Regards,

Lee

I agree. Especially if they were to allow a publication like cybesocket to sponsor but not XBiz; NetBilling but not CCBill. Such blatant favoritism would be undignified.

[gaybucks_chip]

This whole backbiting crap needs to stop. There's room enough for everyone.

AVN isn't going to go away because Xbiz exists.

CCBill and Epoch both have plenty of clients.

AVN could be as loved in the expo business if they simply learned from the CCBill model.

If what Lee says is true, it's appalling both on AVN and Epoch's part. CCBill allowed Epoch to be a premium sponsor of Phoenix Forum and GayPF, in spite of the bad blood at the time over Patrick's move. Granted, it was a little childish for CCBill to schedule a sponsor dinner at the last possible moment, *after* Epoch had theirs already scheduled, and at the exact same time, but
ALL of these companies really need to work together and compete fairly, not play these sort of unprofessional games.

I would be more inclined to support the companies that support cooperation rather than separatism. This bullshit of actively trying to sabotage other shows by scheduling them at competing times, or shutting out competitors from sponsoring events is foolish, and will only damage their reputations in the long term.

[XXXWriterDude]

This is a really tough call.

Three months ago, I would have said, without question, ccbill because they had the better affiliate software. But now Epoch has MPA-3 with cascading billing for free, and that's a pretty persuasive feature.

CCBill seems to have a little more depth in technical support, but I've never had a problem that Epoch couldn't resolve promptly.

And... Epoch has Patrick, who is a great resource and a strong supporter of the gay adult community (who, of course, Epoch stole from CCBill) and Rainey, formerly of Pridebucks.

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either company, but I gotta say that Epoch is pulling out all the stops to get gay business.

I have to stay impartial on this topic. But I do agree with your assessments of both companies. Both companies rock.

[ronc]

Chad,

I don't post a lot on any board but I do read them. Lee is 100% correct that AVN did sign and exclusive contract with Epoch for a series of shows. (Fact) This contract precludes any billing company to sponsor at AVN Shows including the GAYVN shows last week and next October in LA. (FACT) We are currently working with AVN to see if Epoch will allow us to continue sponsoring and supporting the Adult Industry at these forums or if they wish to keep this as an Exclusive option. (Fact)

Now before you go out and Blame Epoch or AVN (Both GREAT COMPANIES) of some master conspiracy lets think of this in other terms. Pepsi and Coke do this all the time at Casino, Sports Arena’s, The Olympics, ect... Not to mention Mastercard, Visa the list goes on.

I guess in closing I would like to say that CCbill is here to support our clients with the best Billing Software that we can provide. Over the next several months you will see our version of CCbill 2.0 arrive. I can tell you that the list of features for both Webmasters and Affiliates is 10x anything ever seen before in this industry. I have over 100+ programmers working on this project. This includes New interfaces, Cascading, Multiple Transaction Servers all over the world (100% uptime), Shopping Carts, Tangible Item sales, the list goes on and on. We even have 2 patent pending items that will be released

So while it maybe true that we are not sending 20 sales/marketing/etc people or plastering our name as the major sponsor of every show in the industry. What we are doing is working hard here in Phoenix to bring you the Next Generation of 3rd party billing software. I believe in putting our money into our future product not just resting on current technology.

Please don't miss understand we will have representatives at each show, and as always our support and sales are available by phone 24hrs a day. In my opinion 1 of our sales people is better than 10 of anyone elses sale people, but then I am a little biased LOL

I hope this answers some questions with real facts


Ron Cadwell
CEO
______________
CCbill.com
Cavecreek.com
DRMnetworks.com

[XXXWriterDude]

If this is true that would be very immature behavior on their part. XBiz does not shut out AVN from the XBiz shows, CC Bill does not shut out other processors from theirs. I thought only junior high girls would have a party where the girlfriend of their ex-boyfriend isn't invited to come.

Lee, where did you get this nasty bit of info from??

Nobody is excluded from our shows. Gary from CCBill was in attendance. We certainly didn't block him or anyone else from CCBill from coming to our shows. Xbiz was also there, and we were happy to have them.

It's also worth noting that we covered the recent Xbiz Conference quite extensively, and that we post stories promoting their events quite often, such as this one.

[Lee]

Nobody is excluded from our shows. Gary from CCBill was in attendance. We certainly didn't block him or anyone else from CCBill from coming to our shows. Xbiz was also there, and we were happy to have them.

It's also worth noting that we covered the recent Xbiz Conference quite extensively, and that we post stories promoting their events quite often, such as this one.

Hello mouth... Insert foot, then read one post up

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

Hello mouth... Insert foot, then read one post up

Regards,

Lee

I didn't stick anything in my mouth, Lee. Well, OK, maybe someone's penis, but certainly not my foot. I didn't say anything about a sponsorship contract. I'll leave that to Chad Beecher to respond to, if he wishes. I simply stated that we do not exclude anyone from attending our shows, least of all CCBill, which was represented at the GAYVN Summit last weekend, and we were VERY happy to have them there, along with Xbiz.

[chadknowslaw]

Chad,

I don't post a lot on any board but I do read them. Lee is 100% correct that AVN did sign and exclusive contract with Epoch for a series of shows. (Fact) This contract precludes any billing company to sponsor at AVN Shows including the GAYVN shows last week and next October in LA. (FACT) We are currently working with AVN to see if Epoch will allow us to continue sponsoring and supporting the Adult Industry at these forums or if they wish to keep this as an Exclusive option. (Fact)

Now before you go out and Blame Epoch or AVN (Both GREAT COMPANIES) of some master conspiracy lets think of this in other terms. Pepsi and Coke do this all the time at Casino, Sports Arena’s, The Olympics, ect... Not to mention Mastercard, Visa the list goes on.

I guess in closing I would like to say that CCbill is here to support our clients with the best Billing Software that we can provide. Over the next several months you will see our version of CCbill 2.0 arrive. I can tell you that the list of features for both Webmasters and Affiliates is 10x anything ever seen before in this industry. I have over 100+ programmers working on this project. This includes New interfaces, Cascading, Multiple Transaction Servers all over the world (100% uptime), Shopping Carts, Tangible Item sales, the list goes on and on. We even have 2 patent pending items that will be released

So while it maybe true that we are not sending 20 sales/marketing/etc people or plastering our name as the major sponsor of every show in the industry. What we are doing is working hard here in Phoenix to bring you the Next Generation of 3rd party billing software. I believe in putting our money into our future product not just resting on current technology.

Please don't miss understand we will have representatives at each show, and as always our support and sales are available by phone 24hrs a day. In my opinion 1 of our sales people is better than 10 of anyone elses sale people, but then I am a little biased LOL

I hope this answers some questions with real facts


Ron Cadwell
CEO
______________
CCbill.com
Cavecreek.com
DRMnetworks.com

While I appreciate the response, it is not just me asking the question. I am just the one --other than Lee-- that says out loud what I am thinking.

What you say does answer some questions.

I don't like "exclusive" contracts that reduce selection for the consumer. There are some circumstances where an exclusive contract makes sense--like when GM gives a car dealer the exclusive rights to sell their product in a small geographic area. In that case, one dealer could survive but 2 selling the same product may have to cut margins so close that both go out of business. When Pepsi or Coke get an exclusive contract for a stadium, the consumer loses out because the consumer cannot necessarily get what he wants.

When a trade show excludes all but one billing company, the consumer [webmaster] has a limited selection. A trade show should include free-flowing information, giving the webmasters and other consumers a broad range of choices so that the webmaster can make an informed decision. Excluding all but one company from any sponsorship works to the detriment of the consumer. A trade show is an ideal location for the consumer to gather information that pertains to his business. If, due an exclusivity clause, the consumer is not exposed to all that is out there, that consumer cannot make good decisions. If CC Bill _chooses_ not to sponsor at an event, that is a business decision that CC Bill has every right to make. If CC Bill is _prevented_ from sponsoring an event, then I believe ultimately the consumer is the one that loses out.

I believe in the free flow of information. When that free flow is prevented the consumer loses.

Thank you for responding Ron!

Chad