Will .xxx HELP our industry?

[basschick]

ken, the simplest and most effective version would be to keep kids on a .kids TLD.

the truth is that there will always be guys who jump on a new geocities or other free hosting account and put up stolen porn, and there is no real way to stop it since they are not commercial webmasters nor are they in any way part of the adult industry. there are probably millions of those, and having .xxx won't affect that in any way.

and what about medical sites that show surgery? not really suitable for kids but it won't be kept on .xxx. what about gory war pics? do you think those are suitable for 5 year olds? of course not! .xxx won't solve every problem and while filtering could solve most if we educate the parents, it won't solve protecting children from other things that are grossly inappropriate for them like hate sites. the active use by parents of .kids would.

[XXXWriterDude]

.xxx won't solve every problem and while filtering could solve most if we educate the parents, it won't solve protecting children from other things that are grossly inappropriate for them like hate sites. .

Yes, but the rest of it is not OUR problem, Patti. We're not talking about medical sites and hate sites, so it's no point in even bringing those things up. We should only be responsible for our OWN content. Let the government or whoever deal with the rest of the trash that's out there.

In a perfect world, a TLD similar to .XXX would make the filtering of adult content very effective, and would be a "free trade" domain that was protected by the First Amendment, and there would be no interference from anyone attempting to police our content.

But as far as the alleged "ghettoization of porn" is concerned, I'm of the solid belief that we SHOULD be kept in one place together, where access by children is prevented. .XXX is a great idea that, unfortunately, is being disastrously executed by a company that seems to have its own interests in mind, rather than those of an industry that wants to be responsible, but is rarely looked upon as being so.

[gaybucks_chip]

But as far as the alleged "ghettoization of porn" is concerned, I'm of the solid belief that we SHOULD be kept in one place together, where access by children is prevented.

While I agree with this in principle, I do believe that it's in conflict with free speech regulations, and no matter how well intended the process is, the right wing loonies will use any method they can to isolate and limit access to legal adult content simply because it doesn't match their philosophical beliefs.

AJ and I were tossing about the idea of an "industry cooperative" venture that ran a nonprofit .xxx top level domain registry (this, of course, assuming you could get the industry to agree on anything, and that you could keep the sleazebags from subverting the honest intentions of the process.) While I think it's a nice thought, I think the problem with the right wing loonies would doom it to failure, not to mention the unrealistic notion of getting cooperation from the industry as a whole.

[XXXWriterDude]

While I agree with this in principle, I do believe that it's in conflict with free speech regulations, and no matter how well intended the process is, the right wing loonies will use any method they can to isolate and limit access to legal adult content simply because it doesn't match their philosophical beliefs.

I know what you're saying, but to me, it's no different that a video store relegating all porn to the back room and limiting access to that back room to only those who are over 18. I know that evidently there's something in the First Amendment law that says that free speech should not be ghettoized or something to that effect, but I still have a problem with porn just being so freely accessible to people on the Internet. As unpopular as it is for someone in this industry to say, I think we SHOULD be more effectively policed and scrutinized. It's a good way to keep us on our toes.

[desslock]

In a perfect world, a TLD similar to .XXX would make the filtering of adult content very effective, and would be a "free trade" domain that was protected by the First Amendment, and there would be no interference from anyone attempting to police our content.

That's a classic straw man right there. We could apply that to any speech, and conclude that because of our imperfect world, it's ok to restrict it.

In the marketplace of ideas, there will be bad ideas, or offensive ideas. And they will live or die under such spontaneous conditions, not because the government passes a law about it.

But as far as the alleged "ghettoization of porn" is concerned, I'm of the solid belief that we SHOULD be kept in one place together, where access by children is prevented. .XXX is a great idea that, unfortunately, is being disastrously executed by a company that seems to have its own interests in mind, rather than those of an industry that wants to be responsible, but is rarely looked upon as being so.

Well who are you or I to decide what this "proper place" should be? (it's a fair question) I think the Internet has effectively done a very good job at self organization. Why do you think the government would "organize" it better? And better for whom?

Maybe political websites should be in another special "appropriate" place, or religious sites, or how about sites that promulgate cigarette smoking? We could suggest that talking about cigarette smoking hurts those impressionable kids too... and who could possibly be against the children?

To me, this is exactly along the lines of the weirdly intentioned "Net Neutrality" law. Everyone here seethes over how terrible the federal government is in regulating communications and the media. So why the hell should the same government be deemed better at organizing the Internet and portioning out its use? In both cases, it hopelessly politicizes the Internet, ultimately making it a less of a place for new ideas, innovation and business.

I just don't get it.... but then I'm an old libertarian at heart.

Steve

[XXXWriterDude]

Well who are you or I to decide what this "proper place" should be? (it's a fair question) I think the Internet has effectively done a very good job at self organization. Why do you think the government would "organize" it better? And better for whom?

Every now and then, I think you have to take a stand on something, and my stand is that porn should not be viewed by children, and its proper place is somewhere where kids can't access it. Whatever that means in a situation that would be effective is not of particular importance, as long as it was, in fact, effective.

There are certain issues that require a little bit of moral self-righteousnous, and this, I think, is one of them. And I say that as a bonafide pornographer myself.

[desslock]

Yes... for me, it's late Thursday afternoon, and a wonderful time to, instead of working, start making some grand rhetorical speeches. :-)

Steve

[gaybucks_chip]

Every now and then, I think you have to take a stand on something, and my stand is that porn should not be viewed by children, and its proper place is somewhere where kids can't access it.

On that statement I absolutely agree, but I think that limiting access to porn should be granular, not global. In other words, I think it would be fine to requre every site containing adult content to have a keyword or label or something on every page identifying the content as adult, so that anyone that doesn't wish to view it, intentionally or otherwise, could simply "flip a switch" on their browser, and content would be automatically filtered.

This, to me, would be a solution that's enforceable, would provide a greater level of protection than .xxx, wouldn't allow a profiteer like ICM to take advantage of the industry, and would still protect everyone's rights to speak freely. It would also provide a solution for mixed-content sites, such as video sales sites that offer adult and non-adult content. XXX offers nothing to solve that problem.

[gaystoryman]

While I agree with Ken that children ought not to see porn, I don't agree with the concept that it be kept hidden behind anything like XXX. To use the Video store analogy, it is generally another room or curtained off space of the entire store... It isn't unaccessible, something that anything like XXX has the distinct potential of becoming.

In a perfect world, sex wouldn't be considered dirty, in a perfect world people would all get along, but this isn't a perfect world, but it doesn't mean we can't try to make it one. Owning up to one's responsibility is one way, and adult sites should be adult labelled.

I can't stop the local hooligans from knocking on my door, I can warn them off, but it is up to the parents of those kids to discipline and control them, not me. To begin with I don't have that right. I can call the parents, call the Police, but I can't do anything more than warn them off. A website is not any different. If its objectionable for someone, they can either go away or if illegal, call the feds in. They have no right to force me to greater expense or to force it to be hidden and segregated from the rest of the Internet.

If parents care so much for protecting what little johnny or suzie see, then they need to park their asses next to them and watch.

If we want to make it a perfect world, giving in to some screaming nutjob who isn't doing their job as a parent isn't the answer. As much as I don't want kids reading or viewing my site, I'll be damned if I'll shut my doors simply to appease some parent who can't or won't control the actions of their offspring. It isn't my responsibility to go further than providing warning of what will be viewed.

[basschick]

i'd like to see the law hold parents responsible. you don't leave children unsupervised in public places - your kids can be taken away for that. i see the net as the same thing - a public place. and it should remain a public place. when i was a teenager, parents were held legally responsible for their kids and i have no problem with that. if they can't handle the simple task of turning on filters, their kids shouldn't be browing online except in yahooligans or aol kids.

imo webmasters shouldn't have to be so responsible for someone else's kids that they are held responsible even if they have the proper code so ANY and EVERY filtering software will block their sites and there's also a warning page up. i absolutely feel that children should NOT be exposed to porn, violence, hate speech, religious controversy or a large number of other things.

but why aren't parents responsible for supervising their children? i was. i checked out kids shows before i let my son watch them and checked out movies to make sure they were okay for him. it can be done and should be done.

besides, look how that situation was handled with DEVELISH. the german child protection people contacted him over an issue and he fixed it. here, they build a case for years while kids keep seeing whatever it is and then try and throw you in jail.

that argues a lack of the spirit of what protecting children is all about.

[t0miie]

While .xxx seems like the perfect solution for stopping kids from accessing porn. The way it's being executed is wrong and will most likely lead to some pretty disastrous consequences for the adult industry in general. There's already other ways of stopping them from accessing our stuffs.

One thing that I envision would be that we're eventually forced to use this new domain if we want to keep running, and then certain countries completely banning .xxx or crippling it in such a way that will make it impossible for us to do business anymore.

[CB_Voyta]

While I agree with Ken that children ought not to see porn, I don't agree with the concept that it be kept hidden behind anything like XXX. To use the Video store analogy, it is generally another room or curtained off space of the entire store... It isn't unaccessible, something that anything like XXX has the distinct potential of becoming.

I think that putting a .xxx label on all the porn sites is not keeping them behind the curtain at the local video store - it is more like designating a specific location where adult videos can be rented - a location isolated on the outskirts of your city, where your usual methods of transportation (AOL, IE and others) might not like taking you to.

HERE IS A LITTLE POLL:

At what age can you remember first seeing porn, what was your reaction and how has this experience changed your life?

[TropixxxStudios]

i'd like to see the law hold parents responsible. you don't leave children unsupervised in public places - your kids can be taken away for that. i see the net as the same thing - a public place. and it should remain a public place.

If you run for President I will vote for you!

[twinker400]

ah, but a lot of good link lists aren't in the u.s. and they won't care...

wait a minute, wouldn't ICANN have the power to take your domain if you put porn a none .XXX domain regardless of your country ?
like ICANN can do if you put wrong contact details in the whois ?

[basschick]

sure - if they find it ICANN isn't in charge of policing the web, and people will just move their porn from free host to domain to free host.

wait a minute, wouldn't ICANN have the power to take your domain if you put porn a none .XXX domain regardless of your country ?
like ICANN can do if you put wrong contact details in the whois ?