Epoch
CCbill
Other
*sigh* who posted this poll anyway! haha
I should have saved it for a day or 2 and I would be going to the pheonix forum for free!
Btw guys, thanks a ton for all of the advice, discussion and debate. Not that I am any closer to making a decision, but it does help a ton!
Once you sit down with anyone from Epoch and they explain to you how their statiticians have revolutionized the chargeback model and how it will save you money... there is no doubt that Epoch knows what they are doing.
I spent the entire GayVN show with Patrick, and many others from Epoch. I have never met a group of people that I value as friends and trust more.
Let's just say... I would trust them with more than just my money...
NakedSword has been with CC Bill as primary for years, however noone for CC Bill seems to be able to pick up a phone and call me or anyone at NakedSword (although they will now that I posted this I am sure). We have also sponsored the Phoenix Forum for years but were not asked this year at all. Nor were several other gay companies that used to sponsor the show! We were a sponsor and supporter of the first Gay Phoenix Forum.
I am not aware of anyone attending the GayVN summit from CC Bill as I was all over the show. I would have like to meet the new gay rep there!
I have to say Epoch is the way to go! They have been going out of the way to make sure the gay community knows EVERYONE on the staff from the sales reps to the owner Joel, who is a great guy! They have a good solid product and are alway available when you need them and they always check in with me to see if they can do more!
This entire poll has suspicious results.
The majority of people posting comments in this thread have expressed a preference for Epoch but the poll doesn't reflect that at all. Are we to assume that the people who voted for CCbill can't be bothered to state why they prefer them?
As far as my opinion, I prefer Epoch because they seem to allow more transactions through without increasing the chargeback ratio. And their processing fees are less for us. However, affiliates definitely prefer to promote CCbill sites over Epoch sites by a wide margin. However I expect that to change as soon as Epoch implements the 'merge affiliate accounts' feature like CCbill does.
My solution is to have alternative tours. SE traffic and our in house traffic is directed to the Epoch tour and affiliates send traffic to the CCbill tour.
Tell me about it man, I do not think I have ever questioned poll results untill I have seen this one. Some funny stuff is going on here, and I am not laughing :hmm:Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Well that's not true. You questioned a poll I started recently. And the only manipulation done was to add an option to the poll for Don.
http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...t=21811&page=3
Sorry... I tend to be more of a reader and will not vote unless something to say. So now I have to write something, since I voted.
I have experienced IBill and likewhoa hosting. Two companies that personally enjoyed business funds. I have been with CCBILL now for years. I remain loyal to them. They have given me the stats I required and pay weekly.
Epoch comes in suddenly with casade. It seems the forum sees a shaft of light from the heavens. Personally, I would not like a CCBILL decline to be accepted by another. There is a good reason for declines. Yesterday I contacted FRAUD@CCBILL and said a new signup, back in September 2005 had claimed a minor used the card. That said person, with same IP address is now blacklisted from my site.
My personal experience with Epoch is that they have excellent fraud prevention. We have a very low chargeback ratio with both CCbill and Epoch. I honestly think if fraud is an important concern for you, you can't go wrong using either processor... they both seem to do very well. However, I do think CCbill may scrub too hard sometimes.
Well that was really just a joke, I even did try to turn this poll around with some effect, yet suddenly that changed.
And since I voted, forcing me to comment, there remains the issue that CCBILL is a brand extremely well known and trusted by affiliates.
The CCBILL scrub is well documented, thus why the company has not suddenly vanished like others. I am sure that Epoch will do the same, protecting their percentage... OH... that is right, they will casade to CCBILL, laughing
I would not suggest it, if your using a US possessors as your primary I would not use a US processors for your secondary processors too. Really these processors are the weak link, and US processors are most likely to be the first to start breaking down.
VISA.
It is VISA, not master card, not discover, not Amex that now makes the rules.
Via its structure, Visa is now an international banking agreement, stronger than the old "world bank".
But I think even many here would concure that most income still comes from the USA.
There may be more rules to comply with USA political correctness, but the banks,and VISA enjoy the income gay webmasters create for them.
Are you suggesting Maxpower that CCBILL is a weak link? Was it not CCBILL that declined your site? Seems to me that CCBILL has a strong hand on the pulse of USA and banking.
Not just CCBILL I would not build my whole business based on any 1 processors, and especially not a US processors. I think the processors over all are the weak link not just one or the other, though US processors are much more sensitive about chancing attitudes in this country. Its not like I think they will fail overnight or anything, but there “interpretation” of possible new guidelines and existing once should make you take steps to protect yourself.
Actually, not true. Mastercard has its own set of rules, that's why CCBill had to implement this crazy E-ticket thing they did a year or two ago (the thing that allows members to "shop" for a site and all that.) They did that to comply with the new Mastercard regs.
Visa definitely has more policies pertaining to adult, but each card association has its own set of rules, and there's nothing to stop Mastercard, or Discover, for that matter, from adding another set of regs that CCBill and Paycom have to enforce.
Also, regarding the CCBill scrub vs Epoch, they used to be noticeably different, but I think even Epoch will acknowledge that their scrub is roughly the same as CCBill's these days. And not wanting a sale approved by Epoch that another processor has turned down? Ridiculous. Each processor has slightly different rules, and some transactions will decline at Epoch and complete at CCBill, while others will decline at CCBill and complete at Epoch. Again, it just depends on their individual scrub rules. Today, neither Epoch nor CCBill has "better" scrub than the other, from everything I've heard and seen. We have noticed that on some days, CCBill scrubs harder than other days, but I've heard other people say the same for Epoch.
And to answer Max's point, I don't think Visa International has different compliance policies than Visa US does, other than a more lenient threshold on chargebacks (2% vs 1%.)
Where does one find the mastercard site listing all of the gay sites, in the "shop" Mastercard wanted? VISA remains the power that, regradless of processor or country, a webmaster has to deal with.
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