How Many Shows Is Too Many Shows?

[Dzinerbear]

Great topic, Mary.

I would like to see a show that is really geared at the independent webmaster community. When I travelled the show circuit in my last job there were never a lot of independent webmasters at these shows. A few yes, but show after show I saw way more sponsors than anything.

And now that I'm an independent, I understand why. Shows are expensive. And with shows happening almost every month, I can't afford to pop off $2 to $3K per show. So this year I was going to blow my whole wad on the Gay Phoenix Forum, but now it's not happening. And frankly, I can't afford to take a chance on the Epoch show because it looks like it's mired in controversy. I'm not going to book a show that could very well be boycotted by most of the people I want to see. And coming from Canada, I need to book far enough in advance to get cheap airfares, like now!

I really appreciated that Pride Bucks and Naked Sword gave away some kind of financial award to an independent webmaster so they could attend the San Francisco show. I wish more companies would do that. I would sure forego the t-shirts, foam cocks, key chains, calculators, and other swag if the companies would pour that money into getting independents to the shows.

It's unfortunate, but these shows have become more big business to big business. And let's face it Sureflix doesn't need to go to Phoenix to meet Falcon Studios, neither does Pride Bucks have to go to meet Randy Blue. But you all need to see me because I can push traffic to your products. And you need to see lots of me's. But these shows are priced so far out of the reach of most independents that we just don't go.

I'd love to see a gay show in a reasonably priced city and at a hotel that isn't going to break the bank. The Venetian was lovely, but geezuz, I paid more in accommodations/food there than I pay in 3 months at home. Well actually, I didn't pay ... that's why I went.

Cheers
Michael

[Lee]

Michael,

Now that you brought cost of the shows up...

I was wondering what the 'ideal' price range would be for independant webmasters to attend a 'show'.

$500, $1000? Less?

A couple of the people ive been chatting to over the past few days are throwing suggestions about for a weekend retreat type setting and, trying to get everything priced as close to $500 (airfare and hotel) as possible by going through one of the larger travel companies and trying to sort out a 'group' price.

The problem is, what is cheap for one webmaster, may not necessarily be cheap for another.

Regards,

Lee

[Dzinerbear]

First and foremost, I don't think independents should have to pay an entrance fee to the conference itself.

That said, coming from Canada, airfare to anywhere in the US is probably going to be between $400 and $800 depending where and how much notice you get to book. For instance, booking with Air Canada for a Thursday departure in October to Los Angeles and staying until Sunday will cost me $760 CDN. That's the chepest and Los Angeles would be about the furthest away. American Airlines would cost about $801 CDN, so roughly the same. (Just as a point of reference that $801 CDN was $681 US.)

I figure a hotel just about anywhere is probably going to run you at least $150. So another $450 for three nights, plus taxes, tips, and travel to and from the airport.

If I don't have to pay for any food, I might be able to squeak through at about $1500. If I have to buy food, beverages, and maybe want to go to the baths, hire a hooker, or go out with friends, then $2000 is more likely.

My budget probably isn't a good rule of thumb. My impression is that Americans can fly within their own country for a lot less. Can't you guys fly Southwest for a song? In Canada we have one airline pretty much, so they call the shots.

So a Canadian attending a US show is probably going to pay around $2000 and Americans could pay considerably less. I think when I worked at Mancheck we pretty much always considered a show would cost about $2500 per person.

Cheers
Michael

[gaybucks_chip]

One of the things that AJ and I really worked with CCBill on when we were involved with Gay Phoenix Forum planning last year was to specifically target smaller independent webmasters, and the many, many people who had never been to a show. In addition to free admission, I argued strongly for a very low cost alternate hotel, but then Sherri was able to get the $125 or whatever it was rate at the Best Western, and that seemed like a decent compromise.

The one thing that I didn't agree with was the fact that since admission was free, several companies brought a half dozen or more models, or a bunch of friends that were unrelated to the industry, which diluted the networking opportunities somewhat (not to mention raising the bar tabs!)

What we were going to propose for this year's show was something like 2 free tickets for each company, and each additional ticket some nominal amount ($50-100) that would offset some of the expenses of feeding and lubricating the extra people.

I would still like to see a GPF-type event housed at a nice property like the Mission Palms, but also have a block of rooms at a very inexpensive ($50-75/night) "official" hotel where perhaps there could be a couple of events geared toward the independent webmasters and newer players that can't yet afford the large expenditures.

Likewise, holding the event at a location such as Phoenix, LA, or San Francisco (or even Chicago or Baltimore) where there are lots of low-cost carriers that serve the market and have a bunch of flights would also help to make it inexpensive enough to dislodge the reticent webmaster from behind his or her monitor

By providing an affordable event and attracting the independent webmasters, everyone benefits... the smaller guys get a chance to meet people and become bigger players, the bigger players get a chance to meet new affiliates and create new business and opportunity, and the more people in the community get to know one another face to face, the more the community can begin to build a "web of trust" that facilitates larger scale cooperation, lobbying, etc.

Of course, now that we're stuck with a "quality, upscale" event, I doubt that many, or any, of those goals will be met.

[gaybucks_chip]

btw, Michael, if you're coming from Toronto, you might consider taking a shuttle from Pearson to the Buffalo airport, and catching Southwest to Phoenix or LA. If you book early enough, you can get a roundtrip for about $315 US, and the shuttle is about another $100 CDN. When Jesse visited us for Christmas, I was already on the east coast, so I flew up and met him in Toronto and we drove down to Buffalo. It cost about half of what it would have cost if he'd flown from Toronto.

Just a thought...

[mgillis]

Hey Michael,

I'll split that shuttle with you, myself. Quick trip to Buffalo, especially with good company!

I like an idea floated around in an earlier post...
Instead of my paying a massive sponsorship fee for a poster on a wall that nobody looks at... what if my massive sponsorship fee was used to subsidize rooms at a decent property.

15 rooms at the Mission Palms, brought to you by Maleflixxx...

I'd go for that idea - somebody do it and email me. I'll sponsor your event.

[mgillis]

And I'll put porn in the rooms for the lucky inhabitants - free of charge!

[mgillis]

Cuz, of course, we are all severely lacking in free porn...

[gaybucks_chip]

Hey Michael,

I like an idea floated around in an earlier post...
Instead of my paying a massive sponsorship fee for a poster on a wall that nobody looks at... what if my massive sponsorship fee was used to subsidize rooms at a decent property.

15 rooms at the Mission Palms, brought to you by Maleflixxx...

I think this sort of thing would be an excellent idea.

What might be shaping up here is the people in the industry who are disgusted with what the industry behemoth is doing working together and creating a truly industry-centered and sponsored event.

[Dzinerbear]

15 rooms at the Mission Palms, brought to you by Maleflixxx...

See, this is the kind of stuff I'm getting at. And I don't know about other webmasters, but that kind of generosity and pay-it-forward stuff always gets my attention. And even if I had no way of repaying the people who gave me the Sureflix room or the Boyfunk room at the Mission Palms with actual traffic, I'd find a way to help them in other ways: kind and positive words on boards, sending interested webmasters their way, etc.

Sure, there are lots of people who would just "take the money and run" kind of thing, but that's the nature of business.

And what an excellent ice breaker, too. I'd certainly be seeking out the sponsor of my room at an event just to thank them, and that gives them an opportunity to meet someone that they may never have.

Excellent ideas, Mary. Now if you were on the organizing committee of a show, we'd be all set. And Chips thanks for the suggestions, and you're absolutely right about Buffalo. Way back in the 80s we used to go to Buffalo for those $19 and $29 People's Express flights to Neward for a wild weekend in NYC.

Cheers
Michael

[LavenderLounge]

Another approach would be for the show producers to do a series of smaller "traveling shows". Instead of one big show a year, spilt the sponsorships into 6 different events in 6 different cities.

Charge participants $100-150 admission, only give a few drink tickets instead of open bar, and everyone goes home at night.

Not sure how it would work, but it's just an idea to get more participation without travel involved.

[samebb]

I tell you something really interesting

For the European shows, it would be VERY EASY for those guys, to book an aircraft from a central US airport, and fill it up with american webmasters, who could get a low cost flight to meet the US aircraft, and fly the bugger over the europe.

The COST of booking a WHOLE aircraft would make it SO CHEAP for everyone to fly over the atlantic. You essentially get the seats at the same price as the holiday companies!

All il say is, i wish i was on that flight! A few hundred adult webmasters, a plane, 8 hours, a TON of booze and a good few models floating about..

hmmm. Interesting

[gaybucks_chip]

All il say is, i wish i was on that flight! A few hundred adult webmasters, a plane, 8 hours, a TON of booze and a good few models floating about..

And Jasun dancing naked in the aisles.

I dunno, though... 8 hours of a few hundred drunk adult webmasters where you're confined and don't really have any space to move around... sounds a little scary to me

[CorbinFisher_BD]

a few hundred drunk adult webmasters where you're confined and don't really have any space to move around

I can only handle about 30 minutes of that at any convention party, much less 8 hours of it on a plane.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

I'll just say I'm wary of it whenever someone throws together one of these shows and that someone makes their living off of doing it. As opposed to, say, a Phoenix Forum type affair where it's not meant to be a profit-generating event, other events that exist primarily to earn a profit for the organizer are oft lacking.

In a sane world, a company earning profits off of organizing a show would go out of their way to throw the best damn show possible, attract the most attendance, and thereby earn the most profit.

The adult internet show/convention world isn't a sane one, though, and it doesn't seem to work that way.

There are far too many shows out there, and far too few with anything good to offer those in attendance. If you're one of those webmasters who just want to fly around and stay at nice hotels and pat yourself and your buddies on the back a few times a quarter while getting wasted drunk, by all means hit up every show out there. But if you're very discriminating with what you spend your money on, you're going to find your show selection pretty slim pickings.

It's not just independent webmasters for whom all the shows aren't a good investment. At CF, we sat down and alotted a hefty sum for 2007/08 show attendance and sponsorship. After further review, though, we'll probably spend about 10-15% of that because we found ourselves scrapping show after show off the list the more and more apparent it became that they'd all be of little to no value. Sure, we could sponsor this and that and attend this and that and bring employees and models but for what? Total waste of money. We'll spend that money on direct-to-consumer marketing, instead. Rather than pad the pockets of those that throw the shows.