How would YOU feel if ....

[samebb]

Well i have no provided them with IDs for 2/3'd of the models on the site, which also covers ALL the models on the tour pages, and all of the photoset models on the site. The ones missing are for a number of the videos, where in my opinion the models all look way older then me, and im 20!

We will see what happens when i get a reply from their compliance department. I will give them any other IDs they request for a model they see a problem with, but i dont have the time to spend 48 hours behind a scanner, i just have WAY to much going on at the moment, including personal stuff such as moving!

to think in less than 48 hours i could be up with CCBILL with no problems, i will take that route is they push this any further and i cant find a compromise with them.

[wnc]

The part of this that REALLY pisses me off, and it will irritate a few of you i can bet with me saying this, Is the fact that Non-US webmasters are upheld to laws not of their own.

I have not read the forums for a few days, and this was the first.

Bottom line, at this time, most porn income is generated via the USA. The credit card industry is now similar to the "world bank" but still rooted in the USA.

... to think in less than 48 hours i could be up with CCBILL with no problems, i will take that route is they push this any further and i cant find a compromise with them.

Rest assured, until a new European internet banking solution becames viable worldwide, you are stuck with USA dominance of the market and it's "wierd" conditions.

And as was written, some processors like CCBILL are knowledgeable of the gay industry, when others suddenly wanting gay bucks decline.

[samebb]

And as was written, some processors like CCBILL are knowledgeable of the gay industry, when others suddenly wanting gay bucks decline.

So true. My rep told me i got the member of the compliance team that was the most "gay friendly".

I dread to wish what would be happening if i got one that wasnt. "We cant approve your site as its to GAY" ?

[basschick]

oh, PUH-LEEZE!

epoch has always been gay friendly - i've worked with them on and off. they were there for our first attempts at gay paysites - around 1998 - and they are there today. they've always been there for gay events, have been very supportive and cool in every way. rand from epoch has been a member of this board for 3 years, btw - not exactly brand new to the gay scene or this board.

sam, i've had plenty of problems over the years with ccbill AND epoch because in real life, things go wrong. but these 2 companies have been outstanding in getting issues most issues resolved quickly. you haven't tried to talk to anyone else there yet, so you have no idea how this will end up.

[IntenseCash.com]

That is pretty crazy I could not imagine having to send them 600 model releases and id's. I know the main billing companies are definetly a lot more picky then they used to be. Now they check whois info to make sure it matches your visa registration, they check all outgoing links etc but what they are asking from you is pretty crazy.

Mark

[maxpower]

At least they are letting you offer ID’s in the first palace, and did not tell you to take your documents and fuck off. Bass is right its sometime comes down to some new guy that has been given to much power for their pay grade.

From past problems, I would advice creating the shortest, blandest, with oldest looking models possible in the tour you offer for review. I would also only offer like 25% of the content in the site when first asking for approval. Not that I have underage guys or am suggesting you are doing anything illegal, but the sad fact is these bank guys should not be making content decisions. You basically have to treat them like children and just lie to them to insure your legal sites have a chance of approval.

[SPACE GLIDER]

I'd go with a biller I work with and regard with some degree of trust.

[rand]

Sam - Unless I missed it I didn't see your site mentioned in this thread.

I saw your site for the first time this morning (before I knew about this thread) and the first thing I said (and TRUST ME I've seen a lot of sites) was "Wow! These models look really young").

That being said, if "I" have that reaction I can guarantee that Visa compliance will. Epoch has a much better chance of getting your site approved quickly if we have the information we need to answer their questions. We work with them on a daily basis and we know what they are going to be looking for.

A billing company provides a service and part of that service is to protect your interests. And yes, our interests as well. Compliance is doing their "due diligence". Everyone who's seen your site has had the same reaction.

We (and I personally) have extended every ounce of support to you. We are not the Internet police and we have no interest in causing anyone to "jump through hoops". Helping you get approved with as little friction as possible is the entire goal. And making sure our assets and yours are protected is worth the effort.

I'm available to you for any questions you have as is Frank, tech support, compliance, risk management, etc...

You have a lot of people working for you.

[samebb]

Thanks Rand.

Yeah spoken to Frank a few minutes ago.

This whole Rant isnt really anything again you guys at Epoch, its more about my personal stance on US laws being enforced on international webmasters. I dont really have a problem abiding by them, because i want to suceed in this business and i take it as one of the requirements.

What i am wondering is, when is this going to clash with other laws? Its only a matter of time! So many countries are working my make the internet safer for their citizens, which is something i also support.

I wonder what will happen though, when say Canada, or the UK, impliment their own laws, that physically prevent or clash with US? Interesting...

--

Anyway, Im still waiting to hear from compliance. I guess they have only had 24 hours, so no rush really. I guess a few of the models do look under 20, but then again they are over 18.... Seems even if a model has fuzzy haired legs, a 9inch dick, pit hair and stubble, as soon as their skin colour varies from "white", years must drop off them.... All i can say is thank god i dont im not working with Asian twinks!

IDs for ALL the models featured on the tour pages, and about 70% of the models inside the members area have been provided to compliance, so id be amazed if their was a problem now. Id be upset to, the new MPA3 admin area of Epochs site is awesome, im so excited to get going!

Anyway thanks for the reply Rand. Was cool to hear i was a topic of conversation in your company meeting :square: *im famious*!

[attis]

What i am wondering is, when is this going to clash with other laws? Its only a matter of time! So many countries are working my make the internet safer for their citizens, which is something i also support.

I wonder what will happen though, when say Canada, or the UK, impliment their own laws, that physically prevent or clash with US? Interesting...

What is going to happen you can already observe in the travel industry. The US are asking for personal information about people traveling to the US which are protected under European laws. According to laws of the European Union it's clearly illegal to pass on some of these personal information.

However, the information are given anyway because the US simply threatened to ban airlines from flying to the US if they don't supply the data. As you can see from this example business is more important than laws nowadays. So my guess is that all the laws which are different to the US and which might disturb business activities will either be ignored with approval from the highest courts or simply changed to 'US standards' by the legislative. You can observe this happening in some of the member states of the EU already.

On a personal note I wouldn't jump through every hoop for a few freebies. There is a bottom line and there is only so much I will take.

[gaybucks_chip]

To be fair to Epoch (who is NOT on my "happy people" list), one of our sites passed Epoch compliance, but then Visa, and then separately, the processing bank each wanted to see IDs on a couple of our models.

We provided the IDs and the sites were fully approved within 24 hours.

As far as the efficiency and cooperation of their compliance people, they are topnotch.

As far as their handling of the current issues surrounding the event they sponsored, used to kill GPF, and shut out CCBill, and their complete silence on the issue, they are far from the top in my book.

[samebb]

Well here is an update.

Gave ALL the IDs over,

Now they want all my model releases?
I will not waist the hours and hours scanning pages they dont even NEED.
They are suppost to be compeating with CCBILL, but they really are failing badly.

I am already almost compleate signing up with CCBILL (again).

Seems Epoch grabbed my eye from ccbill with their new stuff, but they really need to look at their way of doing things.

Correct me if im wrong, but 2257 does not include model releases as a form of documentation to prove a models age? or am i wrong ?

[gaybucks_chip]

I think Epoch might have been asked for a model release for one or two of our models, I can't remember.

You are correct that nothing in 2257 makes any reference to model releases. They are required only for your own records, to prove you have the right to use the images in case the model tries to claim you don't.

My guess is they are just trying to verify the date of production, and unfortunately the model releases are the only way to do that, but an unscrupulous producer could easily fake the production dates, so what's the point.

If this is Epoch making the request, I'm sure they are just doing so in anticipation of what Visa or their acquiring bank might require. I can't imagine they would do this if they weren't relatively confident it was needed... it's certainly extra work for them.

However... plenty of reasons to go with CCBill at this point in time

[samebb]

However... plenty of reasons to go with CCBill at this point in time

Agreed.

Within 5 hours of initial contact, I have just corrected the 1 compliance issue with CCBILL (a mistake on my join page), sent the email back, and i guess i will be live very shortly. If they do it within 6 hours i myself will hand them a?.. Biscuit! Will be impressive...

So, story all all is..

IF you dont want a week of fucking about, before being told that you have to spend a further 2 days stuck behind a scanner, providing compleatly pointless documents to a biller...

And you would RATHER be setup inside a day (If you are inside the EU)..

Then CCBILL is the choice for you :cheekymonkey:

[samebb]

and unfortunately the model releases are the only way to do that, but an unscrupulous producer could easily fake the production dates, so what's the point.

Such a good point. In all honest, if somebody really wanted to put themselves at risk, models releases, and a photoshopping of any ID could change everything with a model who is 18, or a model who is 30....

One major downfall in 2257, and one major downfall for a "certain" biller.
No names mentioned :uhoh: Dont want to be accused of corporate sabatage!