As Chip has restated. If anyone would like to have a private, non-threatening, and to the point conversation with me, the invitation is open.
As Chip has restated. If anyone would like to have a private, non-threatening, and to the point conversation with me, the invitation is open.
So you basically want to keep your reasons for getting the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled private?Originally Posted by OffshoreGayPorn
Why? It doesnt just affect you and CCBill, it affects the whole gay webmaster community, why cant you tell us publicly your reasons (and those of Epoch/AVN) for direcly competing with, and getting the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled?
Its a matter not just for people behind closed doors, but everyone in the industry.
CCBill made a public statement as to why they cancelled the show, people now want to know why your group felt the need to directly compete with the Gay Phoenix Forum using the underhanded tactics you used, i dont think it is to much of the gay webmaster community to ask that you let us know publicly your reasons for what you did.
Regards,
Lee
I have already made a public statement on behalf of Cybersocket. It is not my place to answer for other companies. I have answered as to our motivations and intentions. If that is unacceptable to a few individuals at this board, so be it. As I have stated twice before. Anyone, including you Lee, are welcome to call me privately and discuss this in a rational and sane manner. Cybersocket will not be participating in this thread from this point forward.
Wow.
So - we open a thread, demanding an explanation from someone in the know.
We recieve one.
And instead of considering the response, we attack the responder and call him a liar.
And it kind of becomes clear why Epoch and GayVN have just kept thier mouths shut, because apparently no explanation is acceptable.
This is a really awful thread to read. Can we just stop it now?
But we didnt.
We got a statement, passing the blame on to CCBill for not being able to agree on a format with some other companies.
The question as to why this group of individuals decided, in backrooms, to directly compete with the Gay Phoenix Forum, even though they were by all accounts, happy with how the show was being operated, hasnt been answered.
The answer to many of us is clear, but these companies just dont have the balls to come right out and say it, they wanted to get the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled to further their own needs, rather than the needs of the gay adult industry.
You can at least respect someone who tells it like it is, shying away from this discussion for almost 2 weeks then suddenly coming out, in force and not really answering any of the questions being asked just doesnt cut it.
These companies were very public in announcing their 'show' yet when the tough questions started to get asked, nobody wanted to answer them publicly.. Instead, almost 2 weeks later, they tell us that they want to answer them behind closed doors.
I just dont see what the big deal is with the main companies involved (Cybersocket, Epoch, AVN) in getting the Gay Phoenix Forum cancelled just coming right out and saying they only launched their show in October to make money and to profit off the success of the Gay Phoenix Forum and off the gay webmaster community, to the detriment of the gay webmaster community but to their benefit.
Regards,
Lee
But see, Lee - it seems to me unless they say JUST THAT (hey - we were out to fvck ccbill) - no other answer is acceptable.
Sure - I may be rebecca of sunny brook farms here... but MOST people dont make decisions based on stuff like "Lets Screw GPF (insert competitors name)"
If Morgan's story is true, CCbill dithered and dallyed about dates, and maybe even had some internal discussions on whether to do the October show at all. One year does not a tradition make, and shows are expensive and an immense amount of work.
So, GayVN and Epoch say "well, make up your minds, would ya" - and then decide to go ahead and schedule when it would be good for them. October is the best month of the year in LA.
Now, since neither one of us was there.... isn't it just as likely that a series of events that led to this, as it was a purposeful attempt to hurt CCbill or anyone else?
As some one else on this thread said, its business. But plain old fallible people are the ones running the business, and people make mistakes - misjudgement - have conflicts; this doesnt a conspiracy make.
Finally - honestly, in 5 years will this REALLY matter to you? In not, why are we putting so much energy here.
If you talk to the principles, and find out that this was all really sleazy, use that to guide your billing decsions... but most likely, this was just one of those things that happen in business.
I LIKE the people at Epochsystem. I LIKE the folks I work with at CCbill. I like the folks at GayVN - at all these companies, I have always been treated well. I'm sorry they had a spat. I hope they shake hands and stay friends. But unless we were in the room at the time, we have NO idea what really happened here.
xxxwriterdude:
for the record, bedfellow was neither sold out from underneath me nor was it sold. that was nothing more than lee stating something and allowing conjecture to create a lie without him having to take responsibility with an actionable statement.
you see he's trying to embarrass me for something that hasn't even happened. it's called a pot shot but that one missed the mark entirely. i am still (as i have always been) a partner in bedfellow.com - nothing on that front has changed. this is a fact. sorry to burst your bubble on that one, lee.
it's off topic but worth mentioning.
karl
I have no motivation in this discussion either way, but the most emotional community members have tried to frame the discussion in their own contentious way, which evidently isn't going to get an answer any faster, and isn't surprising.
So had folks considered coming at it differently maybe things would be different. Whether it's the answers people want to hear or not, at least we'd have something to judge them on (i.e. whether we believe them or not is our own perogative), rather than passing judgement on nebulous silence because they chose not to engage in a dialog of loaded questions fueled by presuppositions.
$0.02
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