Judge rejects students' free-speech suit over anti-gay T-shirt

[chadknowslaw]

Hate speech is still free speech, but limits on time, place and manner of speech are acceptable.

A black arm band to protest the war is acceptable speech in school, while hate speech is _not_ acceptable in school. However, hate speech _outside_ of the school grounds is still protected speech.

The location of the message -- in a school environment where the listeners cannot really leave -- is important. The same shirt worn on the sidewalk would be protected speech.

[Duggy]

Hate speech is still free speech, but limits on time, place and manner of speech are acceptable.

A black arm band to protest the war is acceptable speech in school, while hate speech is _not_ acceptable in school. However, hate speech _outside_ of the school grounds is still protected speech.

The location of the message -- in a school environment where the listeners cannot really leave -- is important. The same shirt worn on the sidewalk would be protected speech.

ah we've got a lawyer in the house! nice!

thanks Chad

xo,

Duggy

[DEVELISH]

Chad,

could you explain in a short way why pornography is free speech?

[chadknowslaw]

Chad,

could you explain in a short way why pornography is free speech?

In a short way>?

no.


Only in a long way.

[gaybucks_chip]

Chad will probably speak more eloquently about this later, but as I understand it, the First Amendment in the US recognizes both free speech (the right to write or say anything) and free expression (the right to produce art or images or whatever).

The US Supreme Court ruled on the issue of obscenity as it relates to pornography some 20+ years ago, and ruled that obscene images, speech, acts, etc are not protected by the First Amendment (nor is certain speech, such as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater) The Supremes came up with a set of rules that had to be met in order for content to be considered obscene, and that became what is now known as the three-pronged Miller Test, which I won't reprint here but will provide this Wikipedia link.

Hope that helps.

[Squirt]

Free speech is a right but freedom from consequences of that speech is not.

I'm glad his free speech suit was rejected. Preaching hate with a bible verse shouldn't be acceptable in schools, or churches. Just my opinion.

[chadknowslaw]

Free speech is a right but freedom from consequences of that speech is not.

I disagree. And the current state of law disagrees as well.

Free speech is not about protecting speech that other people agree with, it is about protecting speech that the majority _disagrees_ with. In order for that expression to be protected, there should be no consequences from voicing your opinions. The speaker should not be assaulted by onlookers, angry mobs, or police officers. The speaker should not be hauled off to jail and punished. The police should prevent attacks against the speaker and protect his right to make a fool out of himself.
HOWEVER, the unpopular speaker will always face being ostracized, outcast, and shunned but the unpopular speaker should not face any physical harm or government punishment for his expression.

Even hate speech is protected, so that stupid kid that drove his pickup truck with some nooses hanging from a bar over the truck bed will (likely) not be convicted of anything. What he did was stupid and abhorrent and hateful, but it is that kind of expression that cannot be suppressed.

The student with the bible verse on the T-shirt would have had full First Amendment free speech protections _outside_ of the school setting. Had that student worn the same T-shirt on the sidewalk outside a gay pride rally he would have had his full free speech protections. Wearing the t-shirt in a school setting, where order must be maintained and it is a legitimate government purpose to maintain a non-threatening environment, will get the poor misguided hateful bible beating schmuck a legitimate order to cover it up or get out.

In order for me to say the things I want to say, I have to tolerate the fact that people I really really really really don't like get to say what they want to as well.

[DonMike]

We have one kid wearing a bible verse condemning homosexuals. We have a 14 year old shooting a 15 year old for being homosexual. Anyone see the connection?

[krunnch]

Free speech is a right but freedom from consequences of that speech is not.

I agree. you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, for example.