Problems with Hyde Park Productions studio

[Dilbertdidporn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilbertdidporn
And what is a fair rate?
IMHO If a model agrees to work for a wage and the produce agrees, that is a fair wage my 2c

Ha Ha Dean AND true enough if a model agrees! No I don't take anything personal I have been on boards since the 80's including some professional and industry forums. And I know how touchy people can get.

Thing is I have a lot of respect for Chip,his work and company. He always has well written posts. He has taken the time to respond to me privately and in depth. So we may disagree but I do respect him. I also know he is a moderator and having served as a mod on other forums I do understand the special constraints and pressure that comes with this volunteer job!

And he has his OWN Business to run!

So if Chip wants me to cool it because I am out of line I understand that.
Just hope it is not because of the message!

[deanb]

Ha Ha Dean AND true enough if a model agrees! No I don't take anything personal I have been on boards since the 80's including some professional and industry forums. And I know how touchy people can get.

Thing is I have a lot of respect for Chip,his work and company. He always has well written posts. He has taken the time to respond to me privately and in depth. So we may disagree but I do respect him. I also know he is a moderator and having served as a mod on other forums I do understand the special constraints and pressure that comes with this volunteer job!

And he has his OWN Business to run!

So if Chip wants me to cool it because I am out of line I understand that.
Just hope it is not because of the message!

I agree with what Chip has said in this thread. We all know Hyde Park dropped the ball in this case, and I think Eon confirmed with another model. I would like to see that brought to light as well.

The thing I agree with you on, and not Chip, is the Jonathan what ever, I know him as F........ I won't say his name. I was on a shoot with him when the whole thing was discovered, and from the beginning, I always thought he was the one to bring it to life.

[gaybucks_chip]

DeWayne, I appreciate your compliments, and I really don't want to get into a pissing contest.

All of the major producers know each other. They share a lot of information with each other that they don't share with bloggers and random people who have "been around."

Scouts, porn consumers, wanna-be industry people and various others widely spread misinformation which confuses the situation and often ends up in models not getting opportunities at all.

You didn't state "here's the middle of the range", you said "Pay runs from $750 to 1500." And I'm not saying that no one is paid that, nor accusing you of lying. I'm saying there are many studios that pay less, and many that pay more, and if you're stating that range as *the* range, you're wrong. Of course, now that you've been called on it, you're backing down. I'm just suggesting that speaking in absolutes is rarely a good idea.

As for the Hyde Park situation, I'd be the last one to sweep it under the rug. If a studio is doing something unethical, as I and many others have said in this thread, it damages the industry as a whole. When we don't police ourselves as an industry, we all suffer.

I was also pretty quick to point out that Kyle's situation was really uncool and inappropriate. So saying I want to sweep the situation under the rug is not really accurate.

[TropixxxStudios]

250 dollars a scene is Lativan wages! thats a fact I know bottom feeders who pay 650-750! I have sent models TOO THEM so I know they were paid that rate!

I was trying to stay out of this, but I think I need to jump in. First of all, I do not know you, and maybe someday I will, but I kind of take offense to this statement.

Maybe I am reading it wrong, and if so, I apologise, but it seems to me that you are equating the amount someone can afford to pay to whether or not they are a bottom feeder? I disagree that $250 a scene is Latvian wages. I think depending on the scene, that can be a more than fair amount.

For instance, some of our scenes are about 5 mintues long, after all, they are getting hit. If it is intense, we would usually pay them $200 for that scene. I guess I could tell them they will make $2400 an hour, then only use them for 5 mintues... :groovy: Or for a much less intense spanking, I might pay $150 for a ten minute scene. etc. etc. etc. I do not think that what you can afford to pay should be an indication of what type of person or studio you run.

Yes, we pay at the "bottom of the scale". Yes, we pay at the time of shoot. Yes, the models know EXACTLY what they are in for. Yes, ALMOST EVERY model that has worked for me in the past has returned to shoot more scenes. I think that speaks more to the quality of the studio that just money.

I think what makes someone a bottom feeder is how they treat their models, (with or without respect) how they conduct their business (private and public) etc.

To equate bottom feeding with pay is to somehow say that people that make less money are less worthy than others....

...If someone can't pay a fair rate should they be in buisness?

So are you saying that smaller sites like mine (with about 100 members) don't have the right to produce content, try to grow? Not everyone starts out huge...especially if there are several established players in your niche that have a huge membership base like we are up against.

...And what is a fair rate?

I think a fair rate is whatever the model thinks is fair. If a model is willing to work for a free plane ticket to San Diego, thats fair. If they want $200 or even $2000 a scene, thats fair. I think the most fair thing is that people can set their own worth.

I have had two models in the past that just wanted to be on my site and get spanked (or spank). I offered to pay them, but they said no. They just wanted to do it. In the end, they stayed at my house, we went to the mountains, the zoo, etc. and a great weekend all together. They were just into spanking, and as one of the models put it "When I am 50 years old I want to watch this scene and remember a great time."

I did not pay him a penny...and I hardly think that makes me a bottom feeder.


So again, I am sorry if I mistook your statements. I just wanted to ring in on the side of the smaller "bottom feeding" studios like myself.

I am hoping I misunderstood you, as I think your blog is kind of cool.

- Michael

[kyleyoung89]

Hey all

Just to let you know I received money from Hyde Park Yesterday.

Unfortunately, even though I got the 455, i only ended up with about 380 US, because of having to pay to ship the document(40 bucks CAD they wouldn't reimburse me for), phone calls to try and get a hold of them(total of about 25 bucks) and exchange rates.

But At least I got something I guess. All the money I got went on my phone bill, thankfully thought i only have 100 left to pay off and my phone is all good.

Also, thanks to everyone here, and GMS for helping me get this resolved.

Kyle

[gaybucks_chip]

(Since Kyle's been paid, I think we can let DeWayne hijack this thread again...)


Michael,

Don't let anyone ever tell you you're a bottom feeder. There are a lot of smaller producers like yourself. We were there not that long ago.

If the model is being well taken care of, having a good time, and being paid fairly all things considered, there's no problem. A lot of what are now good sized studios/sites that pay top dollar started out paying minimal model fees; our first models worked for some pretty low wages.

A few producers, like Brent Corrigan's site(s), are spending an investor's money when they establish their model fees, so the economic viability of the project doesn't matter to the person actually spending the money. Most of us aren't that lucky. And, of course, bigger studios and programs can afford to pay models better because they have more money to work with.

One piece of advice: We always, always, always pay the performer something for any content we use. We shot a nonadult public service video (a message on safer sex) last summer and had an actor, playing a doctor, who was delighted to volunteer to be in it. We gave her $20 (called it "gas money" so as not to insult her) so that we could show that she received consideration for the shoot; without consideration, a contract (such as a model release) isn't enforceable.

Of course, you can argue (and would probably win) that paying for the trips to the zoo, food, etc. is consideration, but having a signature on a form showing they received some payment (or some other form of consideration) makes your model release bulletproof. Just my 2 cents

[Dilbertdidporn]

Thanks Chip don't mind if I do :offtopic:

First of All I would like to Apologize for the bottom feeder comment it was really unfair and uncalled for. I do believe their are some great small sites (niche & fetish) and we would all have a lot less variety in our porn lives without some of the small producers.

I certainly understand Michael that a BDS&M site is wholly different and your right no way did I mean to disparage YOU or ANY Fetish site! No way! I would be lost with out my instructional videos :whip:

I was thinking of Hyde Park (and hardcore Sex) and if they cant pay a model their fee they must be in some financial distress and they should not have allowed this to "fester"

Finally Guys I was told by a friend of mine that my comments were insulting and that I needed to understand the fundamentals of this biz have changed for everyone. He said we passed a peak in DVD sales collectively(as an industry) 3 years ago. Chip he also made the same observation about investors in porn vs earning your way as well.

John Patrone at Jet Set told me recently that this is a Very challenging time for ANYONE & EVERYONE in Gay Porn.Small OR Large. In an era where 18-19 yo's are jacking off or having sex on Xtube "How do we compete against Free Legal Porn?"

"By offering something they cant get on XTube!"

But if that were easy to do you would all be millionaires ;-)

Message received guys and Thank YOU all for having the patience to help me get a better understanding of this buisness, Gay Porn in ALL its Diversity!

Kyle I am glad you got paid and I am sure you have learned here there are a lot of guys who supported you and helped to get your payment.

You had a bad experience I am sure you will know who to work with now.

Nite guys

[abostonboy]

Does it REALLY matter what the model is paid as long as they enjoy the work and are actually paid?

Seriously, some people in this industry (and those industry wannabes) need a reality check.

Create a good product. Treat the models with respect. Pay them. Not rocket science.

We pay upwards of $5k a scene. I don't consider us a "top feeder" nor do I consider anyone that pays a model $250 a "bottom feeder." We are all producers.

Labels suck and are overrated imho.

This is a board for those that are actually in the industry, right?

[TropixxxStudios]

Dilbertdidporn - Apology accepted, and thank you.

Chip - You are right, I never thought about the "execute" part of the contract, and although travel and zoo, etc. could be argued for sure, we will make token payments in the future should those situations arise..

ABostonboy - 5K? OMG. Need any overweight slightly going bald models? :moneybags:

[chadknowslaw]

Kink.com pays a model for any time spent on the set even if they quit. If the contract was for $1000 and the model quit after one hour, the model gets $250. The model is paid the same day and all paperwork is done _before_ the shoot.. If the model is not used there is a kill fee of $100 paid on the spot.