Ah right now that makes more sense of it, now I know what the tactic is that they use.. thanks for expanding upon that :)
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Ah right now that makes more sense of it, now I know what the tactic is that they use.. thanks for expanding upon that :)
Yet the truth was staring everyone in the face and they just chose to mark it up as 'drama' because CSocket and several of their followers (at the time) claimed anything that was said against them was just that, drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
Looking back on the companies who were always so quick to defend them and what happened to those companies at the hands of CSocket its actually quite ironic $0.02
I guess ultimately the truth will always out... Its just a shame it took the greater gay webmaster community so long to realize what many of us already knew.
Regards,
Lee
A few years back we spent a ton of money with Cybersocket, something close to $30,000. It was for a year and included an ad in every issue as well as being a sponsor for every event they hosted at the national shows like Internext as well as a few extra spots on their website. Frankly, we saw absolutely no return on that money. It was like throwing money down a black hole.
We've had MUCH better responses by placing small classified ads in Unzipped magazine for only $60 or $70 a month. This is true for memberships as well as for selling individual DVD's.
If you are considering doing print ads I would suggest talking with others who advertise in Cybersocket magazine before signing any kind of long term commitment.
Bill
I would qualify that further to say "who advertise in Cybersocket AND you can verify they have an accurate means of tracking their results." Denial is powerful and a lot of people that advertise there probably don't want to admit that it doesn't work. That and... there are a handful of people who are in there every month who are part of "the mafia" and are probably still convinced that it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
Funny thing is... someone who actually worked for cybersocket some time ago told me point blank that advertising in their print publication was not something that would be a good return on investment.
Or simply dont care if it works.... So long as they remain part of the perceived 'in crowd' by spending money on ads $0.02Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
Regards,
Lee
Hmmm Lee,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Maybe we should start a list of the "in" crowd and the "out" crowd....!
I'm first on the "out" crowd list!
Hugs,
Bill
Ok then another question, why do the adverts in their printed publication not work? Only reason I can think of offhand is the readers are just not interested, and that would mean it is going out to the wrong audiance, but how can it be?
Or maybe the adverts just do not fit in well with the articles, like putting an advert for toothpaste next to an article on "How dirty is your toilet cleaning brush!" ;)
I think one reason they don't work is that in terms of advertising in the magazine, the magazine is a "freebie". In other words, it's given out free on racks in gay bars, bookstores, restaurants, etc. Many of the copies are glanced at and then thrown away. Some may make it home but I'm guessing that is a rather small amount. Being "free" signifies to many the worth of the magazine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyr
As for sponsoring events, i.e., parties at industry events such as Internext, you are "preaching to the choir".....the participants at the events tend to be other advertisers, webmasters or models who are there simply to party, not read the ads on the walls or in print.
Just MHO,
Bill
Oh, and by the way, I just found out yesterday that we were also nominated for the Cybersocket awards and I understand the awards were last night.
You'd think that CS would at least tell the nominees they had been nominated, not that I give a damn nor would we have gone even if we had known about it, but it gives you some idea of the communication skills of the magazine and owners.
Bill
In reference to Bill... Cybersocket called us in reference to "giving away" free publications within our DVD Orders. They felt our customers would enjoy this as it is considered a "free gift."Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
They would send us a case of 100 publications per month. We did this for about 1 month. We placed one current publication at that time with every DVD Order. Some of our frequent customers requested that we not enclose it within their orders. After a short period of time it became a problem to where our customers did not wish to receive the publications. So we stopped. I called Cybersocket and requested to be removed from their "list." They said, "you have been removed."
The next month, another case came. The case was thrown in a dumpster. The following month came, another case came, it was thrown in the dumpster. An email was sent to Cybersocket. Yet, no acknowledgment. The cases still came.
The cases are heavy! A good 40 pounds or so.
I got tired of putting them in the car and then throwing them in the trash. So I went to an adult store that is in the strip mall from us, asked them if they wanted them. They said sure, we can take 1/2 and put them here, and take the other half and take them to another store.
We are in a township (a borough of the city). The Township wrote to the store and requested the publications be removed from the store and to be no longer displayed because it promoted pornographic materials. Keep in mind you need to be 18 or older to enter the store. The pubs were placed inside the store at the door on a rack.
So the store discontinued placing the CS Publications at the store.
They contacted me and asked that we stop. So I did so to accommodate this effect.
At this point, we had no need for them.
About 8 months has passed now, they still send these publications Every consecutive month. We have returned them back to them (refusing shipments from Fed Ex). They have paid $10.00+ on the Fed Ex return fees. Emails have been sent, letters have been sent and they still continued to do so.
As a former advertiser, we received them during the months our ads ran. If you really look through the publication... you gain the feeling that the publication is primarily set to send traffic to Cybersocket.com.
So to Bill's effect, it is read or at least looked at. But then thrown in the trash or left.
Cybersocket as about any other publishing company charges their rates based on how many are printed, NOT how many are looked at or what are in circulation.
CS does offer a subscription to their readers. I don't believe it's many.
So this may help better explain.
At one point 2 years ago, Douglas Richter at Cybersocket was handling our account. We (Sebastian Sloane Productions) had received a nomination. When Morgan had us all up in his world and was all goody goody two faced with us he really expressed an interest in us within the CS Awards.Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
We really thought it was a cool ass thing.
Back to Douglas, I asked how does one get started to possibly winning an award? He said, "You place the CS banner on your site. You request the public, members, website visitors, etc. to click on the banner and vote for you." The banner was never placed on the site. We too had been nominated.
Nothing ever came of it.
So, what I understand is the only way to be nominated is by requesting that your users to vote for you. Just my $0.02
According to Cybersocket's own numbers, from the period Octoboer 1, 2007 to September 30, 2008, their distribution was 69,900. Of that total, 270 were subscriptions which assumes they were paid for. The remainder was listed as bulk distribution, the majority within the state of California. These numbers were posted on The Gay Board, (owned by Cybersocket) at http://www.thegayboard.com/showthread.php?t=10216 Looking close one can see that it was posed in December 2008 and has had only 13 views. Doesn't seem that there is a lot of interest in seeing what their distribution numbers are.
Essentially it is a publication which is given away at no cost. One can only assume that the publishers know the value of their own publication.
Bill
LOL how true, especially as the rest of us know ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
'You get what you pay for'
Regards,
Lee
there are a bunch of cybersockets around the corner from the flowering tree. whenever we walk by, they are a big dusty stack. it makes me wonder what happens to the old ones - do they get picked up and counted as negative against the total or do they stay out there or what?
Thanks again guys for more explanations in relation to all this.
I did not know that the magazine was a freebie I have ever only seen it for sale at about $10 ish.. I guess that must cover the postage costs and a bit profit from the guys that try to sell it.. Is it distributed freely in the UK out of curiosity ? I live in the sticks and do not go to town or any bars for that matter, the only time that happens is if I am at an awards related event.
So yes overall no wonder the adverts don't work then.
Douglas Richter now that is interesting, That might well explain quite a few things that are happening with AWE atm..but thats another matter entirely under speculation... funny his name should crop up though.
You guys could always try our printed publication though lol .. Not had any complaints from advertisers that I know of at least, rates are negotiable and many options to suit. We have studios repeat advertising and people buy it, so it must be working for them since we don't have a gay mafia LOL .. the URL is on this forum someplace, I do not want to take the piss and post it again unless Lee say's thats ok.