Extreme Content - Whats Your Opinion On It?

Does it help or hinder the adult industry as a whole when content producers constantly push the boundaries of what can and cant be published online when it comes to 'adult' related images and movies?

Ive just been reading that this was a huge issue at the Florida show Yesterday on one of the panels and was wondering what your folks thoughts were on the topic?

Personally, i do believe there needs to be a line drawn, imho, these producers who constantly try to push the limits of what is acceptable in the adult industry are damaging us more than helping us.

I have no problems with producers wanting to produce content to the fetish audiences but, when these same producers are the ones with a loud 'voice' in the industry, thats what i have an issue with because, it marks us all with the same brush.

So what are your folks thoughts on extreme content and, what would classfiy as 'extreme' when it comes to content?

Also, are there any types of 'legal' content that you will refuse to use or market on your sites because you feel it pushes the boundaries more than you are comfortable with?

Regards,

Lee

I don't necessarily have an issue with extreme content in and of itself.

The only thing that really bothers me about it is that I feel it's often the result of a lack of originality, a lack of thought, and someone's inability to be creative.

There are a lot of producers creating very extreme content who do it because they are just incapable of coming up with anything better to do. They're unable or unwilling to create a quality product on "this side of the line", so to speak, and so in order to be able to offer up something different they just push that line or step over it in to territory not yet covered.

A lot of extreme content producers have deluded themselves in to thinking that they're original and unique and that they are pioneers of expression and creativity, but I'm of the belief that could not be further from the truth in the vast majority of cases. They just keep getting more and more extreme because they're unable to compete and so venture off in to territory that shouldn't necessarily be chartered, if you will.

Just because something's not yet been done doesn't make you a genius when you get around to doing it. It just might mean that everyone else has more sound judgement

There's plenty of content that I'd personally defend a producer's right to produce on First Amendment grounds but would not be comfortable marketing because it's either too "edgy" or else it's simply offensive to me.

It's truly a razor's edge because as soon as we draw a line and say "THAT form of expression is not protected under the Constitution" it becomes really easy to add things to that list. It took me a long time to understand that message.

At the same time, I think I'd have a hard time standing in front of a jury with a straight face and arguing that scat, or someone vomiting on someone else and eating it (a real-life example I heard of recently) for example, has any redeeming artistic or social value.

But as soon as you start applying that test, then somebody can say that the content that most of us produce or distribute is offensive or has no redeeming qualities either...

Very difficult area for me.

hrm I should edit the last part of my post to not say "has more sound judgement" but "didn't really want or care to go there". That'd more accurately reflect what I was trying to say.

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

But as soon as you start applying that test, then somebody can say that the content that most of us produce or distribute is offensive or has no redeeming qualities either...

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See therein lays the problem i have with a lot of these 'extreme' content producers, there are current tests that the court systems use to judge whether content can be deemed obscene / offensive etc specifically, The Miller Test however, it relys on that burdomsome 'community standards' thing which could vary from town to town or state to state.

I really do think we need to have a law on the books that is definitive in telling us where that proverbial line is drawn.

Also, what Brian mentioned i found interesting because im also of the mindset that just because someone else 'hasnt done it' doesnt make it an artform and, more often than not, the defenses used in such cases are that it is a form of 'art' and well, call me weird, like you Chip i just cant see how someone puking on another person could even be considered art and yet, the producers of such content seem to be under the delusion that is what it is.

Again, as with Brian i think its a case of these types of content producers simply dont have enough creativity in them so they feel the only way they can get anywhere is to push the limits of what could be deemed as obscene.

Will be interesting to see how some of our other community members respond to this topic for sure though :)

Thanks for both of your answers so far :)

Regards,

Lee

This so call morality in the adult industry is laughable and a bit self delusional. No Gov. or person should be able to tell others what is acceptable or not, it is up to the open market to decide. If we are taking about adults then its up to them how to behave and what they enjoy, not any of you. If you not like something don’t do it, but that give you NO right to play some morally game with the rest of us. Many of us are just the same as are opponents and the sad fact is that they can not see it though all thier personal BS.

This is yet another example of the older generation trying to force the rest of us to behave the way they would like or feel is appropriate. In another 10 years these will be the same guys bitching about, kids riding skateboards on the sidewalk or walking on their lawn. Personally I think a fix to this would be some testosterone replacement for some of our more aged webmasters. :prescription:

Having attended a number of AVN Adult Video Expos over the years, I've seen a trend toward more and more "extreme" content coming from the straight side of the business, not necessarily the gay side. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Seems to me that "extreme" content is intended to appeal to those consumers who've become bored with mainstream sucking & fucking and are looking for something ever more exotic to satisfy themselves. And there's always going to be producers out there to rush to fill that vacuum in the market... producers who'll crank out anything that sells, regardless of taste (as CF Brian points out). As pornographers ourselves, I suppose it's not up to us to pass judgment on people and their sexual tastes, but personally I wish it would have stayed underground. It's become far too "in your face" and I think that hurts the industry's image at a time when it desperately needs to put its best face forward. There's my $0.02 worth!

He is right things are going to keep getting more and more extreme, to keep up the shock value until we have a new medium then it will start all over again. Nothing you or I can or should do about it its just how the world works. If you do not believe in a open market then maybe you should think about getting a nice safe job in a tractor factory. :shitpoke:

Everyone calls me the G rated pornographer.

But since sleepingmen.com a couple people have said that I'm promoting a Gay rape fantasy.

I ask them how you can rape someone when there is no anal sex in my videos, just caressing and j/o. They say it isn't consensual. I say when was the last time someone jacked you off in your sleep, made you cum, and didn't wake you up?

It's all a matter of perspective I guess. Is sleepingmen.com extreme? Should it be rated? Can you imagine answering these questions, and more, for every porn site on the net? lol

Extreme... humm...

Gaydemon pointed out that fistingcentra.com and goldenboysUSA.com could be considered extreme...

There is one domain which has the most extreme material I've seen to date (i'll put it at the end of my post so you don't visit it on accident)...

The thing with "enter only if you are 21" is well worth a caution... You will see needles in penis-heads, the ballsack nailed to a wooden board, blood, "mosaics" of needles in one's butt etc...

When I first saw the site about a quarter year ago I had breakfast and I almost threw up, litereally! Needles, blood, nails, hooks, stretching, pulling are just too much for me.

I did however take a walk on the site and viewed ALL free webmaster material available while having lunch. I managed to view the site not with my personal eyes but with "curious eyes".

domain the.bloodbitch.com (if too extreme, please someone remove the domain name)


DEVELISH

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

Extreme... humm...

Gaydemon pointed out that fistingcentra.com and goldenboysUSA.com could be considered extreme...

There is one domain which has the most extreme material I've seen to date (i'll put it at the end of my post so you don't visit it on accident)...

The thing with "enter only if you are 21" is well worth a caution... You will see needles in penis-heads, the ballsack nailed to a wooden board, blood, "mosaics" of needles in one's butt etc...

When I first saw the site about a quarter year ago I had breakfast and I almost threw up, litereally! Needles, blood, nails, hooks, stretching, pulling are just too much for me.

I did however take a walk on the site and viewed ALL free webmaster material available while having lunch. I managed to view the site not with my personal eyes but with "curious eyes".

domain the.bloodbitch.com (if too extreme, please someone remove the domain name)


DEVELISH

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Well man that’s is the main point in really extreme sites like that, it did make you curious and even look at everything they had to offer so I would say even though I would not personally join or promote that site they did do their job.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

Everyone calls me the G rated pornographer.

But since sleepingmen.com a couple people have said that I'm promoting a Gay rape fantasy.

I ask them how you can rape someone when there is no anal sex in my videos, just caressing and j/o. They say it isn't consensual. I say when was the last time someone jacked you off in your sleep, made you cum, and didn't wake you up?

It's all a matter of perspective I guess. Is sleepingmen.com extreme? Should it be rated? Can you imagine answering these questions, and more, for every porn site on the net? lol

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Ya man its a really slippery slop when you let others decide what you can and can not create on your own sites. It will start with this piss, scat, blood stuff, but it will not stop with just that, personally I can live with a few really extreme sites rather than having some E-Nazis telling all of us what is acceptable today and what will be tomorrow. :scared:

If you can not tell censorship really pisses me off :flogging:

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

Extreme... humm...

domain the.bloodbitch.com (if too extreme, please someone remove the domain name)

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and processed through CCBill go figure :balls:

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Originally Posted by Lee

I really do think we need to have a law on the books that is definitive in telling us where that proverbial line is drawn.

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I disagree

The last thing we need are more laws limiting free speech.

The "proverbial line" changes with time, and with every new administration.

We don't want any line drawn limiting how someone feels we can express ourselves. $0.02

Yeah, like the 1950's proverbial line. No thanks. :thumbsdown:

Well i guess that proves another point that was talked about at the show...

There's no way in hell the industry could self-police itself because webmasters cant even agree on the basic stuff.

Lets hope the government does a good job at setting up the new regulations for the adult industry :)

Regards,

Lee

Lets hope the Gov. stays the hell away from my and everyone else’s right of free speech and artist freedoms. Some of us do not want to live in a virtual box. :thumbsdown:

hmmm... i had to think what i considered was extreme!

i think everyone has their "limits" and no two limits are alike , some might think making love with the lights on ..."is the limit!"... while others might think that making love on the balcony in plain site of the public is "extreme".
i don't produce content for "shock-value" (that's too easy especially when your creative) i think it's more of a challenge of taking something "ordinary" and making it "extra-ordinary" (people are more intrigued when you can take an oject/place/etc. which they have access to and never thought of using/doing/etc.)
i am torn on this issue for it is often "extremist" who "blaze the trail" for new idea's and although "shocking" and/or "offensive" at first , too often they set the "trend" for the public.
agreed! , there are some things i will never photograph , what comes to mind immediately is "dead people" , there was a site i ran across which used "dead people" (probably someone who had access to a morgue) which i found completely demoralizing but then i'm sure someone out there might think otherwise.
i am not sure where this is going , but i have no desire to compete with "sick" :ill:

jim

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Originally Posted by gaydemon

More and more flesh, extreme action, barebacking etc isnt neccessarily what turns people on and in turn make sales.

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Shhhh.... Yes it is ;)

The more people that dont understand this the better off the rest of us are going to be ;)

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Well i guess that proves another point that was talked about at the show...

There's no way in hell the industry could self-police itself because webmasters cant even agree on the basic stuff.

Lets hope the government does a good job at setting up the new regulations for the adult industry :)

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I think you're being a bit of a drama queen Lee

As a whole we agree on SPAM issues.

We agree on no nudity on entry pages and exit pages, as a whole.

We agree that innapropriate keyword advertising to lure underage surfers is wrong

We agree that we need more processing choices

We agree that the current 2257 regulation aren't effective in doing what they were meant to do

We agree that our freedom of expression is at risk in the current political environment

And plenty more things we agree on, and like any other industry there will be people who don't agree and go against the grain.

Oh and a lot of people agree that people pushing more and more extreme content get what they deserve. Is this right?

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Originally Posted by gaydemon

I think SleepingMen is actually a really good example of how you can still come up with something new that is very different and something that will catch people's attention without being extreme...........Many sites and webmasters forget about what actually turn people on. More and more flesh, extreme action, barebacking etc isnt neccessarily what turns people on and in turn make sales.

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We both think alike in this area. The new content I have under development for a new site has this same aspect in mind as well.

A lot of content producers disconnect with what they are creating and only focus on moving further in the physicality of what they shoot, not the mentality of what they shoot.

A good example of this outside the adult industry is music videos. After a while each one has the same feel and experience, but when a producer takes the time to connect the viewer with the music through the video, those are the videos that stand out and really touch people.

Now in the adult industry extreme porn touches people, but in a negative way. If the theory is true about people acting out what they see in film then what kind of sexual health are they promoting through producing that kind of content? Probably the same kind of health that extreme music promotes? Who knows but one thing is for certain... if you're personally going through a self destructive phase and listen to hasher music that's something you can work through, but if you perform some of the acts in this extreme porn content, you will never be the same. Your body will forever be changed. Something to think about.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

The "proverbial line" changes with time, and with every new administration.

We don't want any line drawn limiting how someone feels we can express ourselves.

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Exactly. Let's not forget that Lucy and Ricky had separate twin beds in their 1950s "I Love Lucy" bedroom... and the show almost got cancelled when Lucy got pregnant in real live, because the censors wouldn't allow a pregnant woman on television. Look at how things have changed now... we could NEVER have legally produced even "vanilla" gay porn in the 1950s, and so anything that were codified now would be hopelessly outdated in one way or another within a few years.

My constitutional law prof when I was in college talked a lot about how magnificent the Constitution is simply because it was written so flexibly as to continue to be valid and applicable to our society today in spite of being written 230 years ago. Would be nice if we could come up with guidelines that are as lasting as the words of the constitution, but that seems unlikely.

This is a really tricky issue here.... but, I would like to point this out: even if none of us were doing extreme content, the religious right would STILL be trying to put us out of business. For example...NONE of us in the real adult industry are producing cp, but this is the excuse they are using to try and make it impossible to comply with regualtions that we are mostly trying to comply with.

That said: Before I was doing the rather soft core gay side of the biz, I was one of the very FIRST of the extreme producers. I had a straight site (girl on girl and solo only....) doing fisting, ws, BDSM, bloodsports, wierd objects... etc etc etc.

I wasnt doing this just to be shocking... I was doing this because it is what floats MY boat. It was artistic. It was political. It was ETHICAL (our models generally had so much fun that they told all thier friends, who told all thier friends.....)

Nowadays, I wouldnt touch that content with a 10 foot pole, regardless of what I might do in the confines of my own home.... because I dont want to fight with some prosecuter about the fact that I was doing extreme because I BELIEVE in pushing the edges of consensual play.... and I am not brave enough to go to jail to fight for my rights on this issue.

But, I must say that I find more than a little hypocricy in the adult industy right now.... from people who should know better....

"My kink is erotic... but yours is just plain disgusting....."

the problem is that a lot of shock content makes people other than the religious right feel that porn is a threat. extreme content makes it easier for politicians to make normal people who aren't worried about 2 girls and a guy or 2 guys in a video worry.

am i saying i know what to do about this? fuck, no! but i do recognize the pattern.

http://www.whippedass.com/updates/full0.php does it right. all the sites in that program show bdsm and bondage, and after every session they also show the people who participated smiling and happy. that very clearly makes a statement - that this is voluntary and consentual and done for fun. if more sites would do this, less people would believe that people are being kidnapped and harmed.

well said!

Also, I need you to PM or IM me in a couple of days :) I have something for you!