Are Partner programs dying?

Ive tried a couple of % programs recently and they seriously havnt delivered. Most surfers go for the non rebill option from what i cant tell.

That option turns a partnership into a cheap pay per sign up.

Now i dont claim to be a major player, so im going on my limited experience, which is why im asking this question.

With people paying massive pay per sign up rates (i mean im live is now paying $125 this month!), why would i send my traffic to someone giving me $20 or half of a non recurring subscription? Ive even seen recently a cable tv company giving $50 per sign up plus 5%, for getting people to take a free set top box at $30 a month.

How do % programs compete with that?

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

How do % programs compete with that?

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Well to answer your question. (Or more, my opinion on the subject) Is that the only Rev-share companies that can and do compete with these $100/per programs are companies with unique niche's or with sites that convert much better than their competition.

Like let's look at from a monetary stand point. I'd rather put a company on my front page that will give me 10 joins at $20 than a company that'll send 1 join at $100.

But for the most part I think you're right. When comparing apples to apples (or penises to penises) if their content is the same and their niche is the same - the $100/programs will definitely win.

But even if they convert, if you cant see the inside of the site, how do you know they will retain? Is it a gamble? Im not saying "this is how it is" im asking questions.

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

But even if they convert, if you cant see the inside of the site, how do you know they will retain? Is it a gamble? Im not saying "this is how it is" im asking questions.

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I've been trying to think of the best way to word it - but I wouldn't necessarily call it a gamble - more of an experiment - after which you'll be able to analyze your data (through your stats) and make your decision from there.

(Or you could always ask the affiliate manager and hope that they'll share their average with you)

Your decision depends on who you are promoting, and how you promote them. I almost always prefer the % payout option. In my opinion, if I just wanted to make a one time bounty, go into marketing non-adult mainstream websites.

For me, I'd rather not just rely on getting paid for new signups. Last month Google dropped me from a number of significant rankings, and so what carried me through were my rebills and residuals.

Some programs may just not sell past 30 days for their customers. But, for example, say Naked Sword, Falcon or DirtyBoyVideo, who for me retain their customers in high proportions, I'd be crazy to just take the bounty and run.

Steve

The biggest traffic sites still seem committed to 50% revshare programs. As an affiliate I've never been impressed with big PPS programs. I don't really promote those niches that they seem to do. I do much better with affiliate programs that appeal to a smaller audience.

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

But even if they convert, if you cant see the inside of the site, how do you know they will retain? Is it a gamble? Im not saying "this is how it is" im asking questions.

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That's a great question. What I've done is ask the owners for a complimentary account so you can have a look see. Anytime I've asked for one, the owners have been very generous in providing one. In fact, going inside a paysite and seeing how they work has always helped me significantly in selling them.

Now I typically have met these owners or reps at the shows, so we've already credientialled each other as serious, and I'm not a flake looking to just get a free password.

Another option would be to build some pages promoting a program. Then, after that point, email the program, include your url showing your affiliate links, and say that you want to sharpen these up, so can I have an account so that I can have a look see?

As a last resort --- and I've done this myself --- I've opened up my wallet and paid for a guest $5 membership, or a one time membership. Then you see the goods, and you can really weigh the quetion "If I were a potential customer, would I buy this?" or "If I were a potential customer, would I want to pay for additional monthly renewals?"

Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

Steve

And don't forgot, PPS programs are paying for those huge commissions somehow. So while you may be earning $100 commission, or whatever, maybe you're not getting all the commission you were due.

How much of the traffic you're sending to these kinds of programs is diverted through pop-ups and exit consoles?

I remember a while ago I switched all my revshare codes to PPS for a popular program we all know and love. Suddenly my PPS conversions went to 1/700, my revshare had been 1/300. So I made $30 on a PPS when I could have made $30 on two revshares, or there abouts.

I really only use PPS on sites I know don't sell very well or sites from those huge conglomerate programs that I know don't have great back-ends and won't retain a member.

Cheers,
Michael

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

Ive tried a couple of % programs recently and they seriously havnt delivered. Most surfers go for the non rebill option from what i cant tell.

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Congrats on falling into their trap. They know the surfer will sign right back up after his one month ends, and they get out of paying you lifetime revshare.

If there is a database of past sales and which affiliate made the referral, then rejoin credits stemming from these non-recurring options could be issued.... Yet nobody does it.

i have reviewed most of the PPS sites i'm aware of and i can tell you that - with a few exceptions - customer satisfaction generally is not exactly their first concern. why should this worry you? because unhappy surfers - or even worse, guys who feel ripped off - are not going to be so quick to pull out their credit cards next time around.

also in all my years in the business, i've only found a small handful of PPS sites that sell as well as my list of revshare sites that sell and retain well. and last, there are still sites out there that retain really well. you can ask other webmasters or just experiment a little.

also how you market the sites could be a problem. i'm not saying it is but i am saying that i promoted 3 tv sites and had truly amazing retention for years along with initial sales of 1:200 to 1:300 from gallery traffic.. my buddy had plenty of the same type of traffic but he sold the same sites at 1:1200 to 1:1500 and virtually none of his members retained.

why not talk to the owners of the sites with the non recurring option and see if they'll make a mirror tour without that option?

in any event, if we all keep sending our traffic to sites that don't update, that use big trailers but small member videos, to sites full of misleading upsells, sites that simply don't provide the content claimed on the tours, to sites that cover their paying members with popups when they exit - soon there are going to be a lot less paying members to go around. is getting paid more worth losing a lot of longtime income?

I'm glad to see that a number of people in here mention checking out the members' areas of sites themselves and making sure they're not sending their surfers anywhere crappy.

I always wonder why so many affiliates go for the (not so) quick and (not so) easy buck with big PPS signups just because that large number sucks them in without considering what they're doing to their longterm ability to generate revenue.

If you're sending your surfers to sites jampacked full of exit consoles, upsells, cross promos, 3rd party sponsors, etc etc etc; sites that have a business model that rests upon getting that one initial signup and then either diverting the surfer somewhere else or not caring if they retain (for example, having a super-high signup rate because they know they have to get all that money right away because that person will never rebill or even return), you're turning your own surfers in to people that might never again trust a link you try and send them through.

It is so key to develop and maintain an ever-increasing and robust number of returning, bookmarking, loyal surfers. Rather than constantly having to find fresh surfers. It's as true for paysites and sponsors as it is for affiliates.

So if you are sending your loyal surfers to sites they find do indeed give them what they wanted and what they were promised, and that sponsor works to retain that individual as a rebilling member, everyone wins.

"High Conversion!!!"
"Huge Payouts on Trials!!!"
"$XX PPS!!!"

... hrm... all that is well and good. But what about the content?

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

But what about the content?

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You know, affiliates really dont care what content you have in the members area, i was talking to someone a few days ago about members areas in my sites and they were of the opinion that the sites didnt have any niche specific content in them at all, because that is (and i quote) 'what someone said on the boards' so they just beleived it.

The fact of the matter is, all 25 of my sites have very niche specific content inside their members areas but, affiliates dont even bother asking me directly, instead, they rely on what people say on the boards... Who have never even been inside the site LOL

Im in complete agreement with you BTW, affiliates more often than not will take a look at the site they are promoting, that the 'name' of the site fits the niche and will push traffic to it blindly, without looking at consoles, join page upsells, cross sells, leaks on the tour, or like you mention, what the site has inside the members area.

Regards,

Lee

i've always despised partnership programs....mostly for philosophical reasons(and experience ;) )

When designing free/avs sites for affiliate programs I've always thought it's my job to bring the customer to the door. Period. End of story.

After that it's the site owner's job to make the sale. His site, his risk.

It's like TV advertising. The TV program delivers the audience. It's then up to advertiser to make the sale. You don't see advertisers offering partnerships, do you?

Partnership programs mean that the affiliate is sharing that risk. Who knows if the owner is going to drop dead, take a flier or whatever.

interesting take since i've made over $60 per member on one revshare program and over $90 on another. me, i like revshare :) if the webmaster drops dead, ccbill will probably pay us for at least another month *LOL*

Good discussion for sure. We over here at Sexinc.com are facing the issue of what happens when you relaunch a program that has sites and domains in it that date back to 1996, particularily Chisel.com. Hell, we've got members that go back a few years still rebilling! Can't complain about that!
Now, of course, these sites and domains have been updated, new content, designs, etc, and are proven sites to convert and retain, but I think we're in a unique position where we know we have sites that do well as far as our own in house traffic (type in, SE, etc), and we have a few affiliates (review sites mostly) so far since our Sexinc.com relaunch a month ago that are averaging under 1:100, but we're really itching to see what a strong affiliate with a good source of qualified traffic can do with our program.
Anyone have any experience with the issue of older, well established domains, but in a new affiliate program?

Dave

The analogy I like to assign to the ideal affiliate/sponsor relationship is that of a franchise type setup. I look at our affiliates as people representing our brand, delivering our product to end users, using the resource our product, brand, name, etc provide to generate money for themelves and in turn generate money for us. That's why we're shrinking our affiliate program to work only with a select group of affiliates, and also why we see revshare as the only way to go.

We spend a great deal on content, production, design, etc. We've spent a great deal of time, energy and money building our brand and name. It's affiliates with a vested interest and appreciation for longterm relationships, honest advertising, upfront marketing, and truthfulness that we want to work with. Not "Send, Collect And Forget" affiliates.

I don't think anyone is done any favors when the relationship is simply just send, collect and forget.

When the affiliate is the first point of contact for a consumer, those consumers often don't distinguish between the affiliate and the sponsor. (Affiliates here: How often do you get a customer service email about one of your sponsor sites? Where someone emails YOU saying their password doesn't work or something? That customer doesn't know the difference between the affiliate and the sponsor. They view you as one in the same). Beyond that, though, even for customers that do distinguish between affiliates and sponsors, they may view the affiliate as responsible for the money they're spending. It's you that introduced them to the sponsor site. You that sent them there. You that made money off of them. How much they trust you has a direct impact on how much you make off of them, and how often. And all is directly impacted by where you send them.

I know that we have affiliates who make a pretty good living off of their rebills with us alone. And so any new sales on top of that are like a bonus. They are sending us quality surfers that much more inclined to not only signup but retain once they arrive at our site. And we're providing a site conducive to signing up and retaining that qualified surfer. Ourselves and our affiliates will be benefiting from that individual surfer (and benefiting a great deal more from all of those individual surfers collectively) for quite a long time to come.

And rather than that affiliate having to huff and puff and struggle for constant sources of new traffic, they're making a sweet bit of dough off of people that clicked through their site months and months ago.

Interesting thread, I totally get what your saying. Its kind of an investment. I admit i dont buy memberships of sites im pushing often enough. I guess its tough for me as im still learning alot so how do i know if a site will retain from the inside of the site? Because i like it doesnt mean my surfers will and i dont feel experienced enough to make these judgements yet.

Reading Corbins post i can see why his affiliates would want the partnership option, but then dont all programs say that there are webmasters making a good living on their program alone. Its like they all say they have great ratios when actually alot of dont even have reasonable ones (not saying Corbins like that, buts its what they say). Maybe ill give you a try, i know people like your site Corbin.

Im maybe a 3rd of the way towards quiting that bloody awful call centre job, i think i need rebills to really get there.

As ever, some great advice you lot give :bunnypancake:

A new page a day
keeps a real job away.

Corbin FIsher BD makes a good point too. Promoting websites shouldn't be done using the Ron Popeil Chicken Rotisserie cooking method [ Set it.... and forget it... ] Marketing is an active process, not a passive one.

-Steve

(New Page Profile: Erik Rhodes)

I find revshare works better with new sites/programmes for some reason. Dont ask me why.

Revshare is my favorite option as well. Some days are just slow for new sales, and revshare saves the day!

Steve gave you some great advice in this thread. Check out the site and decide for yourself. And yes, before I knew how to ask for passwords, I paid for access to check out sites. Now, if a site is total crap, I"ll probably stay away from it. If it's good, and constantly updated, I'll always opt for revshare over PSU.

That said, I have a couple of solid programs where I've tried both and compared. Interestingly enough, by the end of the year, value per purchase was very similar, whether paid PSU or along 2-3 months.

Those Im LIVE $125 PSU promos by the way... always make me suspcious. I don't see how they can give you that without shaving.

if the webmaster drops dead, ccbill will probably pay us for at least another month *LOL*

Now there's the most spot on comment of the week!