What Legal Niches Do You Consider 'Extreme'?

I just had a really weird conversation with someone on ICQ about new programs that launch with extreme niches as their initial offerings or at least, sites with names that sound 'extreme' and that got me thinking, out of the legal niches we have in the industry, both gay and straight, which ones do you consider to be 'extreme' or 'taboo'?

This is actually a hard question for me to answer as not much actually shocks me anymore, i guess after 8 years of doing this i have become jaded although to be fair, some of the more extreme bukakke sites out there still trigger my gag reflex once in a while.

So what about the rest of you, what legal niches do you consider to be 'extreme'?

Regards,

Lee

gonzo :goatse:

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Originally Posted by IdolKnights

gonzo :goatse:

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See i personally think there is a lot of gonzo porn that is actually done tastefully.

Granted some gonzo producers tend to cross the lines but for the most part, i think of gonzo as more your regular run of the mill 'married couple' first time dirty home movie (even though it isnt).

Regards,

Lee

Bestiality, Blood, Transsexuals, Rape

Yet with all these, I can see a way to put a good “spin” on it, or to present it in a way that would not be repulsive to me.

I don't think transsexuals are very "extreme" though I might have a hard time in front of a jury with Aunt Edna from Chattanooga.

In addition to the list that Max came up with (minus tranny porn) I'd vote (mostly from what we've been advised to avoid)

- incest
- scat
- sex acts where one party is in bondage (can't show consent)
- torture

Probably a ton of others as well, but the above are the ones that come to mind. Basically, just think of the third prong of the Miller test... if a reasonable sampling of "average" people in the community would find it patently offensive and without any redeeming social value, then it's obscene.

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Originally Posted by Lee

See i personally think there is a lot of gonzo porn that is actually done tastefully.

Granted some gonzo producers tend to cross the lines but for the most part, i think of gonzo as more your regular run of the mill 'married couple' first time dirty home movie (even though it isnt).

Regards,

Lee

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gonzo?
the muppet?
:paco:

is necrophilia legal?

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Originally Posted by Madame0120

gonzo?
the muppet?
:paco:

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That's EXACTLY what I was thinking .. just figured it had some sort of sexual spin to it. Like how gonzo is a puppet, and to get a puppet to work you have to stick your hand inside it ... stuff like that.

nope. nor is beast legal in most states nor can sites with blood be processed by ccbill.

and i don't see a single thing extreme about transsexual porn.

to me, extreme would be full on 2 handed fisting, gagging sites, extreme bdsm (we're not talking a little bondage here). real bukakke is considered extreme, but i don't know that there are any real gay bukakke sites. maybe some piss sites would be considered extreme.

in straight, sites like facial abuse and jism junkies are referred to as extreme sites. they take abuse and degration of the model to the next level.

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

is necrophilia legal?

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Midgets with stump arms fisting granny trannies.

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Originally Posted by Madame0120

gonzo?

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

just figured it had some sort of sexual spin to it

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Think of Gonzo like this...

You don't have a camera man (though a lot of Gonzo does... this is just a basic example) The people doing the fucking are also doing the filming.

IE: I'm standing up with the camera filming someone sucking my cock.

Gonzo in itself is not extreme but like lee said... some people will cross the line in Gonzo. So the acts within some Gonzo are what crosses the line.

Well known, over the top Gonzo would be Max Hardcore. Goes from fucking the girl, pulling out and pissing on her and in her mouth to face fucking her till she gags up lunch then sticking it into the ass of another girl who is also eating out the first chick who is still covered in her sick. Ending the whole thing with a good ass to mouth on the second chick till she also gags and gets sick on the crotch of the first girl. (First person style in all its closeup glory)

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

I don't think transsexuals are very "extreme" though I might have a hard time in front of a jury with Aunt Edna from Chattanooga.

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I think transsexuals are extreme because of the body mutilation. I know its their body and all, but I do see it like that in a way.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I think transsexuals are extreme because of the body mutilation.

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Um, no offense intended, but that remark is either thoughtless, ignorant, discriminatory, or all of the above.

Transsexuals go through mountains of therapy with a specially trained and licensed psychotherapist and/or psychiatrist, are required to first live as their "reassigned" sex for some time, then receive hormone therapy, and finally, when they are ready, receive sexual reassignment surgery performed by a specialist surgeon.

It is hardly "body mutilation."

You may not agree with the choices made by transsexuals, but remarks like the above would be *extremely* offensive to someone who is a transsexual.

and there are many transsexuals who don't have any surgery at all.

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Originally Posted by basschick

and there are many transsexuals who don't have any surgery at all.

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Wouldn't that make them transvestites? I've always been confused by all of the varieties. But this is way I understand transgender terminology...

Transexual - Have had or wish to have sexual reassignment surgery. They believe they were meant to live as the opposite gender.

Transvestite - Live part-time or full-time as the opposite gender but do not wish to have surgery to remove/replace their existing genitals. May have some secondary sexual characteristics of the opposite sex... breasts, facial hair, etc.

Cross-dressing - gets a sexual thrill from dressing as the opposite sex.

Drag queens/female impersonators - dress as the opposite sex to entertain.

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Originally Posted by basschick

and there are many transsexuals who don't have any surgery at all.

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wouldn't that just be Transvestism?

a man who lives his life as a woman is a transsexual.

a man who dresses in women's clothes is a transvestite.

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Originally Posted by IdolKnights

Think of Gonzo like this...

You don't have a camera man (though a lot of Gonzo does... this is just a basic example) The people doing the fucking are also doing the filming.

IE: I'm standing up with the camera filming someone sucking my cock.

Gonzo in itself is not extreme but like lee said... some people will cross the line in Gonzo. So the acts within some Gonzo are what crosses the line.

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So POV shooting. I do believe that I complained about that in an interview.

Ken?

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Originally Posted by basschick

a man who lives his life as a woman is a transsexual.

a man who dresses in women's clothes is a transvestite.

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A man who dresses in Women's clothing is a Crossdresser. Most will tell you it calms them and makes them feel relaxed and "comfortable".

A Tranny generally has augmented the breasts (chicks w/dicks). Many drink their own urine and/or use female whore-moans to aid in "plumping". I am very fond of XDs, but run from Trannies, the Drama Queens Extrodinare.

I think that some POV/Gonzo stuff is very much ok, and places the viewer "into the scene". We have two or three "gonzo" style videos where it looks like the camera guy is the person spanking. We get mixed reactions.

1. Some of our viewers LOVE it and beg to have more. They claim they can totally get into the scene, and pretent they are there.

2. Some of our viewers HATE it, and say that it is totally distracing, and that they prefer to watch, not "participate".

I think it goes to if you are a voyeur at heart, or a participant at heart. However, I dont find it extreme at all. (Granted in a previous example somewhere in this thread, that sounded a little extreme.)

Regarding bondage with sex...I have always had a problem with this one.

I believe that someone can give consent to be tied up, and then fucked, or whatever. Ethical BD/SM players always have safety words to stop the action. Even if someone is totally gagged, tied up, imobilized, etc. there are ways to still have ongoing consent....for instance...

We recently filmed a scene where a guy was tied up and gagged while being spanked. I was worried that with the gag in his mouth, it would not be clear if he was attempting to use a safety word. The solution? A ping pong ball in his hand. If he held his fist closed around the ball, all was good. But if he opened the fist and allowed the ball to be seen by the camera, or dropped the ball, etc, then we stopped, ungagged, talked etc.

The bottom is ALWAYS in 100% control in ethical BD/SM play, so I don't see how it can be a problem, no matter what you are doing to him(or her) as long as it is agreed to upfront, and that there is ALWAYS a way to stop the action while it is proceeding.

On a side note...I do believe that once we as webmasters start to decide what is "too extreme" or "too disgusting" etc. we are in trouble.

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

On a side note...I do believe that once we as webmasters start to decide what is "too extreme" or "too disgusting" etc. we are in trouble.

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See i disagree with that, as adult webmasters, we are in the ideal situation to say what is to extreme.

Afterall, its our asses on the line when someone pushes the boundaries.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

Um, no offense intended, but that remark is either thoughtless, ignorant, discriminatory, or all of the above.

Transsexuals go through mountains of therapy with a specially trained and licensed psychotherapist and/or psychiatrist, are required to first live as their "reassigned" sex for some time, then receive hormone therapy, and finally, when they are ready, receive sexual reassignment surgery performed by a specialist surgeon.

It is hardly "body mutilation."

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You should not worry much about offending me man, I do have rather thick skin and I am really not trying to offend and transsexuals. Yet I still do see this whole chicks with dicks thing as extreme and guys wanting to cut off their willies has to be about the most Extreme thing I can imagine (I am cringing just talking about it). Most of us have all seen Sleep Away Camp, and I am willing to bet the end freaked them out the first time they saw it too.

Just looking at all the therapy they have to go though tell me this is “extreme” and the therapist also believe this, and want to make 100% sure they know what they are doing first.

Its not like I want to round them up, or some fucked up crap, yet encouraging others to do this by glamorizing it in adult sites is not something I would want to be involved with, and I LOVE to push peoples buttons. Sorry but I really do still see this stuff as extreme and listing some of these things make me think so even more now.

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Originally Posted by Lee

See i disagree with that, as adult webmasters, we are in the ideal situation to say what is to extreme.

Afterall, its our asses on the line when someone pushes the boundaries.

Regards,

Lee

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well, i must say i agree a bit with both of you..

yes its our ass on the line and we ofcause have to watch it to keep it out of trouble and keep a business running etc..

but on the other hand i must say i am a firm believer in that whatever consenting adults wants to do sexually with each other or themselves should be ok, even if filmed.. If they take pleasure in it and and others can take pleasure in it then who are we to say they are wrong or not allowed to do so ?

it might not be something you want to see or sell but why shouldnt they be allowed to give it a go..

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Originally Posted by Lee

See i disagree with that, as adult webmasters, we are in the ideal situation to say what is to extreme.

Afterall, its our asses on the line when someone pushes the boundaries.

Regards,

Lee

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Lee,

I don't see how your (or any webmasters) ass is on the "line" if someone decides to push boundries. You would only be accountable if you distributed it, published it, sold it, etc. And I assume you would not be doing that if you felt it was too extreme.

Allowing ANYONE to say what consenting adults can do, watch, etc. is no ones business except those CONSENTING adults who choose to participate, watch, buy, rent, etc.

If we allowed a group or committee to decide, even if it were a group of adult webmasters...the only results would be the destruction of individual freedoms. I doubt that we could even get this group (GWW) to come to any sort of consensus on something as 'simple' as barebacking...Should my feelings on that issue be the standard? I don't think so...nor do I suppose many of you who promote bareback sites would want it to be. I do however fully support your right to promote it, create it, sell it, etc.

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I may not agree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

I don't see how your (or any webmasters) ass is on the "line" if someone decides to push boundries. You would only be accountable if you distributed it, published it, sold it, etc. And I assume you would not be doing that if you felt it was too extreme.

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I didnt mean 'me' i meant all of us, the adult industry as a whole.

Like i said on the panel at Phoenix, the people who constantly push the boundaries of what is considered 'obscene' are the ones painting a target on everyones heads, not just their own.

There is a reason the government wants to regulate the porn industry, primarily because of what those pushing boundaries are doing, there is, imho, no artistic value whatsoever in some chick puking her guts up over some guys cock.

The only reason these people push the boundaries is because they dont have the skillsets to make money like the rest of us do, with porn that doesnt involve abusive behavior, that quite frankly, couldnt pass the miller test in any major porn capital.

Regards,

Lee

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transsexual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual

a cross dresser is a transvestite. cross dresser is not a medical or technical term - it's a casual and colloquial term like shemale, which most transsexuals don't care for.

Sorry I guess this shows my ignorance of this niche, I was talking about shemale’s then.

"Extreme" to me these days is still fisting and huge dildo play (that's pretty damned extreme, in my book--fucking OUCH!), "gape" (sorry, folks, that is just something I do NOT need to see, nor do you need to show), sounding (EWWWWW!), violence/heavy BDSM, scat, bestiality, CP, etc.

Watersports is pretty tame to me, but that's pretty much as kinky as I get in my own sex life, so I kind of consider anything beyond what I'm comfortable doing to be "extreme." Anything beyond what is considered to be the standard norm, I guess, though obviously leather sex has come a long way in the world. :)

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Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Midgets with stump arms fisting granny trannies.

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:shock: OMG the visual has burned my eyes!!!

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Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Midgets with stump arms fisting granny trannies.

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You should be aware that "midget" is a very offensive word to little people (the correct term for them), just like the "N" word is to black people.

I'm shocked how many people still use the word "midget." I guess they don't have little people as friends. I, however, have a few, and I'm very sensitive to their feelings.

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Originally Posted by IdolKnights

Think of Gonzo like this...

You don't have a camera man (though a lot of Gonzo does... this is just a basic example) The people doing the fucking are also doing the filming.

IE: I'm standing up with the camera filming someone sucking my cock.

Gonzo in itself is not extreme but like lee said... some people will cross the line in Gonzo. So the acts within some Gonzo are what crosses the line.

Well known, over the top Gonzo would be Max Hardcore. Goes from fucking the girl, pulling out and pissing on her and in her mouth to face fucking her till she gags up lunch then sticking it into the ass of another girl who is also eating out the first chick who is still covered in her sick. Ending the whole thing with a good ass to mouth on the second chick till she also gags and gets sick on the crotch of the first girl. (First person style in all its closeup glory)

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Wow. Took the image of the funny puppet RIGHT out of my head

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

Um, no offense intended, but that remark is either thoughtless, ignorant, discriminatory, or all of the above.

Transsexuals go through mountains of therapy with a specially trained and licensed psychotherapist and/or psychiatrist, are required to first live as their "reassigned" sex for some time, then receive hormone therapy, and finally, when they are ready, receive sexual reassignment surgery performed by a specialist surgeon.

It is hardly "body mutilation."

You may not agree with the choices made by transsexuals, but remarks like the above would be *extremely* offensive to someone who is a transsexual.

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Why do some choose to keep the penis? It's like "I want to be a woman ... but not REALLY ..."

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

is necrophilia legal?

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I mean SIMULATED necro. I don't mean is someone really getting down and dirty with a real dead body

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

You should be aware that "midget" is a very offensive word to little people (the correct term for them)

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Midget is a medical term. And Dwarf is not the same.

But you don't see as many "Midgets" these days. Just a bunch of Dwarfs.

And to pose midget against the "N" word is just a personal thing. You wouldn't hear a Dr. tell someone "I'm sorry but your baby looks to have a case of the ******"

Ooh, and to call it the "N" word is to still give the word power - see how you didn't say "The M word" but spelled out Midget even though you thought it was an equal?

[edit] and to add. The NON SLANG term for ****** is - a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised. [/edit]

And yes, Midget is an older Medical term no longer used. Achondroplasia being the medical disorder and Dwarfism being the wrap around term for both, proportionate and disproportionate.

I too know little people; being from Tampa - 20 minute drive from Gibsonton AKA:Gib Town AKA: Circus Freak Wintering Town.

The Circus and Carnival sideshow capital of the united states where they have zoning laws that allowed residents to keep elephants and circus trailers on their front lawns and Banks MUST HAVE at least one teller under 3 feet tall for LP's

But going back to your "N" word comment. Stating you know LP friends is like a white person going "I have black friends" just after they say something generalized with double meaning.

It ain't my job to make sure I don't never offend nobody.

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Originally Posted by IdolKnights

And yes, Midget is an older Medical term no longer used. Achondroplasia being the medical disorder and Dwarfism being the wrap around term for both, proportionate and disproportionate.

I too know little people; being from Tampa - 20 minute drive from Gibsonton AKA:Gib Town AKA: Circus Freak Wintering Town.

The Circus and Carnival sideshow capital of the united states where they have zoning laws that allowed residents to keep elephants and circus trailers on their front lawns and Banks MUST HAVE at least one teller under 3 feet tall for LP's

But going back to your "N" word comment. Stating you know LP friends is like a white person going "I have black friends" just after they say something generalized with double meaning.

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Whatever, dude. Not sure where your pissy attitude came from, but I'm just stating what every little person that I know has said about using the word. Whether it's a medical term or not doesn't make any difference to them. They just addressed this on Boston Legal the other night. The little person said "Do you have any idea how offensive that word is???"

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Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

It ain't my job to make sure I don't never offend nobody.

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Really? I try to make it mine when offending people isn't my intention.