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I just got 3 emails from CCBill stating:
Webmaster Program: Fratcash (Fratmen.TV)
Your Affiliate account(s) has/have been deactivated due to a request by the program's Webmaster.
Since Fratcash was my first CCBill affiliate account, all of my [50+] other accounts were merged into that account. Now, I have no access to CCBill.
WTF is going on? Jasun? I've been promoting Fratmen for over two years now, now I get nothing? Not a very nice thing to do to one of your most loyal affiliates...
Huh, fratmen is inactive for all webmasters??
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100boys
No dear, just for the guy that posted, so don't panic.
If you don't get the account reactivated, contact one of the ccbill guys and they can move all of your stuff to another ccbill account. The same thing happened to me a few months back with another program, ccbill was great about getting things fixed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwildwest
Michael
Funny you bring this up. My login at Stats Remote for Frat Cash was incorrect, so I tried to retrieve it but it doesn't go to CCBill, it goes to another processor apparently? If I use my CCBill ID as my login, it won't work, nor will it send me a pass.
I did email Jasun but feel unloved as he ignored me *sniff sniff*
I didn't receive an email, btw, about being deactivated and my account appears to be active.
So, why do I login to check stats at Affiliate Tracking when CCBill is the processor AND shows me converting at 1:34??? (Now I want to push harder lol)
(This is my post to keep me active, too)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pam
Just PM him from the board. And nice to see ya again :)
Could it be that Fratmen is ccbill and Fratcash is Affiliate Tracking? That's the way it is for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by pam
Michael
I'm sure you all understand that I can't (and don't feel the need to) comment on the original post here but Pam.. sorry if I missed your email.
I'm usually pretty good with getting back to everyone, so sorry you fell through the cracks.
Yes.. I'd like to hit a 1:35 conversion harder too. I sent you a PM.. let's figure out your problem.
There are two sites we run.. Fratmen.TV and Fratpad.com.
Fratmen.TV uses CCBill as it's primary billing company and Fratpad uses Affiliate Tracking. I know it's a bit confusing but we had to do that for the unique needs of both sites.
And no.. Fratcash is going strong.. we're about to re-launch our affiliate's page with all sorts of new goodies and we're also about to launch an iPhone version of Fratmen.TV. Rest assured, your account has not been deactivated.
Thanks -- sent you an email and I'd definitely like to push you harder, err, your sites.
Bec, I'm doing great, how about you? It's good to see you again!
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasun
What do you mean you can't respond to my original post? Why won't you respond to my several emails I have sent, three within 30 minutes of having my Fratmen affiliate accounts deactivated? You say on another board that you emailed me twice; I have no problems getting emails from anyone, and am still receiving your promo emails for Fratmen. You have all of my email addresses and my phone number; we've talked on the phone several times, Jasun. I'm not just some random affiliate that you don't know.
To cancel my accounts with no discussion? No reason? Why won't you respond to my emails? I can't believe you would do this. Why?
I am truly upset about this. I was one of your hardest working affiliates; spent hours and hours over two years promoting Fratmen. And in return, I get my Fratmen affiliate accounts, as well as all of my Fratmen rebills canceled, that I worked so hard to get? You have said over and over that you loved my promo videos, and they worked; I sold hundreds of memberships for Fratmen in the past two years.
I am very disappointed. I have a feeling that Fratmen is in financial trouble, and you wanted to stop paying rebills. What other reason could it be?
This certainly could have been handled more professionally. I am truly deeply disappointed and dismayed. Perhaps it is true there is no integrity in this business.
Pam, I woulden't build up my re-bills with Frat-anything that Jason runs until he says why he not ONLY canceled WWW's account but ALSO rebills. You think the decent thing would be is just to disable future sales and keep paying rebills from the customers WWW brought to jason. A similar thing happened on GFY with video secrets (almost exactly like this) they admittedly canceled the guys account becuase he didn't send them traffic for 2 years, since he retired out of the adult industry, but was still collecting "LIFETIME" rebills. Turned out it wasn't lifetime. Jason just canceled this hard working affiliates account who started from nothing and became one of the best porn sales bloggers that I know of. He taught me a lot. One lesson was to never be shady, not worth risking your rep and affiliate accounts for a few dollars when you can potentially earn a lot more. No, in my opinion Jason just didn't want to pay out rebills, threw this guy out and kept the customers for himself.
What's even more suspicious is Jason won't say WHY.
Lifetime means lifetime is lifetime.
I am afraid I have to most respectfully disagree. We have cut all payments to an affiliate that was guilty of some serious theft. There is no way that we would have continued to pay this individual after he had stolen our content and began selling dvd's with the video from our members area.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbaer
There are most certainly valid reasons for cutting off all future rebills.
Puuuuuuuuuuuh :pimp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bec
Drama drama drama!
I can't speak for Jasun, but as far as I'm concerned, Fratmen/Fratpad, Jasun and John have always seemed to me to be among the most up-front and helpful people out there, with a good, stand-up program.
I've also never heard anything negative about wildwildwest either.
Given that Jasun is saying he can't comment, I can only assume that he believes there's more to the situation than what's been said. I would like to hope/believe there's a huge misunderstanding or miscommunication, because this doesn't sound like something that Fratmen/Fratpad would do unless they believed they had a good reason to do so.
Perhaps, wildwildwest, you can call Jasun and get this sorted out and then one or perhaps both of you can post back here to let us know how (or if) the matter has been resolved. Until the two principal parties are talking, we really don't know what's going on, and all that ends up happening is drama.
I try to be a good business person. I have tried to promote several new websites, that I thought were hot, but just would not sell. If a website only sells 1 membership a week, then I don't promote that website as much as I do my top sellers. It is strictly a business decision, never personal.
I have never disparaged Fratmen, Jasun, or any other website that I am affiliated with. Yes, it is true I have had issues with Fratpad payments in the past, but chalking those issues up to forgetfulness and what not, they were always eventually resolved.
The advertisers that pay to advertise on my blogs pay for advertising space and promotion; I choose not to get involved with their politics or policies.
That said, I have excellent relationships with my advertisers, and have the utmost respect for all of them. I do not and will not do business with people who have anything but the quintessence of integrity.
To discontinue paying me my very hard earned rebills because of my association with another website or sponsor, is, as my attorney puts it, a very clear breach of contract...
Thanks, Michael. It only took three hours on the phone... but we eventually did get all of my accounts merged to a new master account, and a few hours later, I am able to log in to CCBill again. I love CCBill!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
Well I read this whole thread again now and I'm not sure if I get it right.
What's the reason Jasun stated for canceling your affiliate account?
If he doesn't have any very good reasons this would mean Fratcash should be totally avoided because of fraud and shaving their affiliates. I'm doing quite good with them and make plenty of sales with them but if that's how they do business I'm gonna remove all links asap.
And you should shitlist them on all boards, too.
Just in case that they didn't have any good reasons like you cheating them in any way or breaking some serious rules...
So Jasun, what's it all about??
Someone on another board brought up the fact that I had a pirate blog, a long time ago... and they found out this information by clicking on my signature, which has all of the information there on my business page. (good detective work, Kansas!)
I put the truth about my past on my business page so everyone who considers doing business with me knows my entire history, the whole story.
In fact, it was Jasun at Fratmen who found a Fratmen video on my old pirate blog and left a comment, suggesting 'making money instead of stealing' with Fratmen. So Fratmen became my very first affiliate account with CCBill.
I also started a blog for (gasp) hetero porn, called Wild College Girls, after Jasun asked me to consider it, to exclusively promote the (now failed) Fratmen affiliated website for straight boys, called Dorm 24. I spent weeks on the blog, getting ready for launch, and sadly, the website never took off. Did Jasun thank me for all of my hard work? I don't think he did.
So, let's at least give Jasun credit for turning this old former pirate around, from sharing videos to selling them; ask Jasun how many memberships I have sold for Fratmen over the past two years; if he can't tell you I will be glad to.
Jasun told me in a private message (two days after this whole thing started) that the decision was made to discontinue Fratmen/Fratpad's relationship with me due to my association with other website(s) who pay for advertising on my blog(s).
No discussion, no warning whatsoever. Hmmm. How easy that was, to stop paying a hard-working affiliate in thousands of dollars in rebills.
He said he emailed me twice, but that is not correct. I get hundreds of emails, and I am still getting the promo emails from Jasun for Fratmen/Fratpad affiliates (WHY?)
Like I said before, Jasun and I have talked on the phone several times, and I have about a hundred emails from him over the past two years. He knows my phone number (also listed in my CCBill profile)
I consulted with Jasun (at first) when I created a promo video for Fratmen; he always said "I love your videos"; finally he told me not to bother, that he loved my promo videos and he trusted me.
And my marketing approach works; again, ask Jasun how many memberships I have sold...
It is still very hard for me to believe that anyone would terminate a very hardworking affiliate that has brought you thousands of dollars in sales without any prior discussion, unless of course there would be significant financial benefits.
Again, I emailed Jasun thrice before posting here and on another webmaster board.
PS: Jasun: I need my last Fratpad check please...
I really need to stop wasting time on this and start promoting the other websites who are very happy I am selling memberships for them...
That is very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwildwest
Who are you promoting / selling links to that would cause Fratmen to terminate you and keep all future rebills?
Hi, Alex. The Manifest Men webmasters links do not work. When can I sign up, please? Looks like a FANTASTIC site to promote !!
Thanks for any update!!
I'm not sure what you mean by the links don't work, but here it is: http://ManifestGOLD.com/
Out of courtesy to the others, it is best to send a pm for these questions or post it on a thread that relates directly.
i think how i felt about this would depend on what site or sites they were talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwildwest
interesting-..
He is over simplifying things. It would happen that it is links to several different sites, 2 of which only have links coming from his sites, in a manner that looks as though it is more than just someone buying links. It would appear that he either owns all or part of the sites that are in question....Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100boys
I'm not going to get into this argument. I like both Jason and wildwildwest and this argument is none of my business. But I do have to say to 100boys, if you are making grand statements about shitlisting anyone, ask yourself if you know the whole story and if you've talked to both parties. If you shitlist anyone that gets called out on a message board you're gonna find yourself with precious few contacts and a lot of enemies.
People are always calling people out on message boards. I've been in situations before at previous jobs where out of fifty happy clients one person didn't get an immediate response or didn't like the way my company did business and went to the boards saying all kinds of things about us being unfair and my being neglectful. So even though I had made everyone happy, the one person that didn't like me went to the boards and tried to make me look bad, which could have really hurt business.
Let WWW and Jasun have their feud and leave them to it. And if you want to base your opinion on either of them on what you read on a message board
then so be it. But I caution about trying to lead a village full of torch wavers to anyone's door before you know the details of both sides of the story.
Wether or not some webmaster has done someone wrong, in the past or in the present, nuking someone's affiliate account and cutting off future rebill earnings has very questionable legal standing.
Even in ManifestMen's case, vindicating an alleged wrong doing by with holding earnings, withholding monies to financially redress an alleged wrong doing, is putting one self above the law.
At least, get the relief from the Court, and then apply the rebill earnings to offset the Court award.
In the meantime, I think all webmasters should think twice about trying to drive traffic to any sponsor program involved in such actions.
It seems to me that that is the purpose of the post and the purpose of this Board.
There are so many things wrong with this line of thinking Nick.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbaer
One: If you believe that any one of my affiliates has generated enough sales in the past year to cover 25k in attorney costs that a decently executed lawsuit would cost, you are mistaken.
Two: There was no "alleged" to the affiliate's theft. It was clear and there was zero denial.
Three: "Questionable legal standing"? We are completely within our rights in each action we take.
I too encourage any affiliate that believes that they are within their rights to pirate our content, to falsely promote our site as a hardcore fisting site or to use images from 'barely legal' sites to promote the sales of Manifest Men to think twice about trying to drive traffic to our sites.
I do not put myself above the law. When it comes to our site and our program, I am the law.
I would add that the majority of affiliate programs have somewhere within their terms and conditions the right to terminate an affiliate's account, along with all rebills, if violations of the sponsor's policies are found.
Generally speaking, these agreements would probably be held to be enforceable and so the affiliate really wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on if such language was in the agreement when the affiliate signed up.
It may not necessarily be just or fair, but the sponsor holds most of the cards in the situation.
Plus, honestly, Alex' quote of $25K for legal fees is pretty low. I'd be really happy if I could take a case through the system for anything near that low.
What theft are you speaking of Alex_Manifest? What theft was clear? You better be prepared to have available some very specific facts before you bring such accusations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_Manifest_M
I have posted on my blogs: (quote)
There is no content theft on my websites/blogs.Quote:
The websites that pay for advertising on my blogs, specifically JerkYourTube, GayForIt.com, and ItsAllGay.com are legitimate websites that go above and beyond the requirements of DMCA regulations.
The websites have removed any and all videos whenever they were notified of any copyright issues, in accordance with DMCA requirements, which they adhere to 100%, and are working diligently to maintain this policy. Now, all videos that are uploaded to these websites are monitored and now must be approved before going online.
Drab Boiz does not and will not do business with websites that promote piracy or any other illegal activity.
Affiliate program owners can terminate you from their program for any reason they like, at any time, they could decide they didnt like the way they cut your hair, didnt like the fact you owned a dog, didnt like that you wore jeans and, so long as they have written in their terms of service...
There is absolutely nothing you can do about it.Quote:
Either you or we may terminate this Agreement at any time, with or without cause, by giving the other party notice of termination. Notice by e-mail, to your e-mail address on our records, is considered sufficient notice for to terminate this Agreement.
Thats what i have written in the T.O.S for Condom Cash, i have never had to use that clause yet but, if i wanted to, i could terminate any affiliate with the letter 'E' in their name and there would be nothing they could do about it because when they joined the program, they agreed to those terms.
It sucks but welcome to the adult industry, it has been this way for at least 10 years.
Be thankfull that you arent promoting a sponsor that could decide to terminate you for saying they were late on sending a check payment on one of the industries message boards, several affiliates learnt to read the T.O.S of a program the hard way because thats what happened to them a few years back.
It is up to you as the affiliate to read any and all terms of an affiliate program before you hit the 'submit' button, once that button has been hit, you HAVE entered in to a legal agreement.
Just be thankfull you got a reason for being terminated from the program, most program owners wouldnt have given you that much $0.02
Regards,
Lee
I love the United States :heartu:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Lee, I understand all of the legal restrictions, believe me. Being a hospital administrator for fifteen years has given me more legal education than I ever wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
My biggest beef with Jasun and Fratmen/Fratpad and his abrupt termination of my accounts was mainly due to the fact that prior to the termination emails I received from CCBill, I had no notice, no discussion and no warning whatsoever, and after two years of what I thought was a very good, mutually prosperous relationship with them. I worked harder for Fratmen and Fratpad than I have worked for any other websites. For Jasun to say this is ethical, fair or good, is beyond me. I will be posting some of the last emails I received from Jasun in a different thread... (and some of the emails I sent to Jasun)
If you re-read, I was responding to Nick's indication that we cut an affiliate for 'alleged' theft. His theft was not alleged.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwildwest