Download vs Streaming: What's Your Paysite Offer?

We just launched a new version of our site that features streaming video in flash and are wondering whether we should put download links on the site as well. We are posting the video in DVD quality, so I'm afraid if we make it too easy for users to download we are giving away too much.

Any thoughts? What are other webmasters using as their video delivery system? Do you feel offering downloads promotes file sharing and cuts down on long-term revenue?

Chris Roma
Pantheon Productions, LLC
http://www.daddybuxxx.com/images/DaddyBuxxx.gif

Right now we offer the option to download the full DVD scene or, the member is able to stream it however, with the new program we're going to be launching very soon we're looking at offering pure flash streaming content or, downloadable only movie files, no solid decision has been made on this yet but i feel like it really is overkill to offer both types and in the long run, it does nothing to our bottom line profits offering both.

At the same time, i really do think that we need to start taking back control when it comes to what surfers expect inside members area, right now they have a sense of entitlement when it comes to what they 'deserve' inside a paysite and this needs to change which is why we are only going to be offering download or streaming content.

When we are charging the member $30 a month to access hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of content every 30 days something has to give with the current business models we all utilize.

Regards,

Lee

For the most part sites offering flash streaming only doesnt get "ripped" and shared as much is my experience...

if you look at the straight sites the big ones offering downloadable movies are all over the tubes and torrents... not that i know if they care of not...

See when it comes to tubes and torrents and sites that offer downloads there are two mindsets and business models to consider...

1) If the content is branded (watermarked) or not and if branded all it does is further brand that site where the content came from.

2) If the content is exclusive or not.

For me, offering downloadable content and having it shared on tubes and torrents really isnt that much of a big deal, the chances are, with the DVD content we utilize, that affiliate webmasters (and PPS program owners) have already flooded the web with most of the older titles anyway, so long as the movie content available for download has a site name on it, it is of no concern to me whether it hits tubes, p2p or torrent sites, ive licensed the content from the producer to use on my sites, not police it if it hits tubes and torrents, that is the original producers issue to deal with how they see fit.

Sure it sucks that this content is hitting these places and being pirated but i honored my content license by paying the fee and using the content how i agreed, policing content is up to the content owner to do and most of the time, they really dont care one way or the other as web use for DVD titles is just an additional realized revenue stream to make money from DVD titles that they wouldnt sell more of anyway.

Regards,

Lee

I like the model somebody has of overlaying or embedding the individual user's site user and password onto the streaming video.

That way, if the content gets ripped, you know who did it... and if the customer sees that, they're less likely to upload it to a tube site.

mind posting an example of this ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

I like the model somebody has of overlaying or embedding the individual user's site user and password onto the streaming video.

That way, if the content gets ripped, you know who did it... and if the customer sees that, they're less likely to upload it to a tube site.

---

We just opened our 1st pay site and the choice was very easy. Streaming. Seemed like the best way to control our content. We own it and we allow surfers to view it. That's what they're paying the membership for.

I've been talking with another webmaster who is in the middle of setting up a website to sell his custom built script that's overlays the user's username and ip address. It doesn't show the password. I'm very very server ignorant but can you reverse the encrypted password from the .haccess file? He gave me a demo of his system and my partner and I are still considering it.

Best Regards,
Jake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jake

We just opened our 1st pay site and the choice was very easy. Streaming. Seemed like the best way to control our content. We own it and we allow surfers to view it. That's what they're paying the membership for.

I've been talking with another webmaster who is in the middle of setting up a website to sell his custom built script that's overlays the user's username and ip address. It doesn't show the password. I'm very very server ignorant but can you reverse the encrypted password from the .haccess file? He gave me a demo of his system and my partner and I are still considering it.

Best Regards,
Jake

---

Does he have a website that shows this technology or do you have his contact info? I can be e-mailed at chris@pantheonproductions.com.

Thanks!
Chris Roma
Pantheon Productions, LLC
http://www.daddybuxxx.com/images/DaddyBuxxx.gif

flash videos are very easy to steal - there are firefox plugins to do it, and so all thieves know to do that. that means the only people who won't be able to download your videos are the honest members. and unless you have content in a rare niche, not having downloads shortens member retention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basschick

flash videos are very easy to steal - there are firefox plugins to do it, and so all thieves know to do that. that means the only people who won't be able to download your videos are the honest members. and unless you have content in a rare niche, not having downloads shortens member retention.

---

As I mentioned earlier I haven't been posting very much over the past few months but I visit and read everything posted here everyday. I must also add that your posts in particular have been very informative and you have earned my respect.

Having said that, with all due respect it appears you are not familiar with streaming technology. We use Wowza streaming server software (although Adobe's version is similar) and at this present time, there is no way to steal our stream. Yes you can use a screen capture program, you can also plug your HDMI output into some type of recorder and record it there but you can not steal our stream using the computer it's playing back on.

If you then combine the user's ip address and login info with the streaming method, we think it's a pretty good combination. I won't get into the password sharing problem in this thread.

Again, I value everything you post and respect the experience you bring. Please feel free to ask more/specific questions about the technology.

Best Regards,
Jake

that's a pretty reasonably priced streaming software, but i must tell you that i have seen TONS of paysites that offer stealable flash videos and very few that offer true protected streaming videos.

and of course, that leaves the issue of retention.

We've tried a million different ways to protect membership content, and we've spent a crap load of money on doing so. Nothing worked. There's someone right behind you figuring ways to steal it and they will sit there for hours trying to steal your content.
Finally, we just gave up and put them back into wmv files where you can right click on and download.

However, for the last year every video we've produced we have sent it to the Copyright office for a motion picture registration. If someone steals it, puts it on a blog, if they have assets and don't comply with a DMCA Takedown notice, we'll see them in federal court.

One programmer told me in the past: No Technology is safe technology. This meaning, there's hackers out there. There are people out there that love the drive of stealing and hacking into things to figure out a way to screw it up or in this case own it. Why waste your money.

What we're also doing is watermarking the videos. That way if someone does steal them, they're tracked. We know right where they came from. We don't watermark anything other than trailers. If the user does then steal them, they're not really accomplishing a gain but yet marketing us for free and it would be easier for us to locate them and prove those are our videos when a DMCA Notice is emailed out.

Hello,

I'm not going to go into the debate exactly but I did want to correct Jake. There is 100%, absolutely, no doubt, several ways to steal a stream from Wowza AS it is streaming. Sorry, I've myself seen 3 different software examples. Naturally I don't use them but because we use Adobe streaming technology I have researched this often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by badpuppyben

Hello,

I'm not going to go into the debate exactly but I did want to correct Jake. There is 100%, absolutely, no doubt, several ways to steal a stream from Wowza AS it is streaming. Sorry, I've myself seen 3 different software examples. Naturally I don't use them but because we use Adobe streaming technology I have researched this often.

---

I would honestly like know more about this. Between the rtmpe, encrypted key (TEA), domain/ip check and the research I did for 6 months, I came up with nothing. There are different ways of setting up Wowza and yes, If I wanted (or didn't know better), I could leave it open for theft.

If you're willing, could you please contact me with specifics? I'd be very grateful. jake.s (at) sympatico (dot) ca

Best Regards,
Jake

We moved all our videos to high quality FLV streaming Jan 10th. The debate of offering flash stream vs Download has been bandied about on these boards many times before. We produce 100% exclusive muscle content that is expensive to produce. I simply don't think it makes good business sense to offer over 40 hrs of exclusive video content ( over 25 full length DVD's for $24.94 a month and let them dowload it all and then cancel, because that's what they do. FLV also plays much better and on any computer, even with sub-par connection speeds. Can people find a way to download it, i'm sure they can and some will, it's the way things are these days. As far as retention, our retention has gone up since we got rid of download and offered FLV stream only. I have only had one complaint from a member, wanting to be able to download the content. I have had dozens of members that have emailed saying they love the way the videos play and look. If you produce exclusive content featuring high quality models then flash stream is the way to go.
The whole idea of offering all your expensive and exclusive content for download at a low monthly price goes against all practical business sense.
If your members area is full of cheap, non-exclusive and old DVD's then sure, let them have it all. Otherwise take the lead from almost every other business and simply rent your content at a nice membership rate of say $24.95. If your content is good and it's updated every week, your members will be happy and you will make money. which is why we are in this business...Right!

Chris,

Here are my suggestions:

1. Stream it.
2. Make short clips. If they steal it, it will be one more step for them to string them together.
3. Watermark everything.
4. Shrinkage is a fact of life in food service and retail. Plan for it.

From an "end-user" standpoint, I have to admit to signing up for one month with a paysite, downloading everything I could from them (often handling downloads while I was doing something totally unrelated, like homework or laundry), and then canceling my membership. I'd have enough content on my harddrive to last me six months or more if it was a mega-site.

With streaming, prior to flash becoming more common it made a lot of sense to have the download option as streaming WMVs are kinda crumby (especially when you can't navigate through the clip and the default size is tiny). With flash clips you get a better streaming experience, which I think would make a lack of a download option less of an issue.

While it is true that you can save virtually any flash stream, unless I'm wrong it is a longer process to do so on a large scale than the old 'save as' feature, so if nothing else, it limits how much of your content a member can "stockpile".

Granted, I'm not as up on the technical aspects, this is more observations from the end-user's perspective as I was that for a hell of a lot longer than I have been working in the industry. Anything I am missing or incorrect about would be appreciated as I am as interested as the rest of you folks on the nuts and bolts of this subject.

(BTW, really impressed with how respectful everyone is being on this thread, even with diametrically opposed views...on other forums this would have already descended into name-calling lol)

I'll speak as an enduser also and say that if you're using Flash streaming that does not allow the user to jump around any part of the video instantly (assuming they have broadband) you are probably going to lose that member very soon. And Flash videos that do not give the option of full screen are also something I hate.

Sometimes I think webmasters need to remember why they got into the biz, which I assume is because they liked to j/o to naked men videos. Put yourself in the customers place and create a site that you would pay for and use.

But my real reason for entering this discussion is to ask if anyone has ever considered a two tier membership option, say $14.95 for Flash streaming non-downloadable videos and $24.95 for WMV or MOV videos you can save. It's sort of the difference between "leasing" the content and "buying" it. Consumers are accustomed to the idea of "leasing" in other areas (cars, homes, etc.) so why not porn?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msm

I'll speak as an enduser also and say that if you're using Flash streaming that does not allow the user to jump around any part of the video instantly (assuming they have broadband) you are probably going to lose that member very soon. And Flash videos that do not give the option of full screen are also something I hate.

Sometimes I think webmasters need to remember why they got into the biz, which I assume is because they liked to j/o to naked men videos. Put yourself in the customers place and create a site that you would pay for and use.

But my real reason for entering this discussion is to ask if anyone has ever considered a two tier membership option, say $14.95 for Flash streaming non-downloadable videos and $24.95 for WMV or MOV videos you can save. It's sort of the difference between "leasing" the content and "buying" it. Consumers are accustomed to the idea of "leasing" in other areas (cars, homes, etc.) so why not porn?

---

you're a damn genius!
like seriously

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by badpuppyben

Hello,

I'm not going to go into the debate exactly but I did want to correct Jake. There is 100%, absolutely, no doubt, several ways to steal a stream from Wowza AS it is streaming. Sorry, I've myself seen 3 different software examples. Naturally I don't use them but because we use Adobe streaming technology I have researched this often.

---

I'd like to know more about this also. I have not see a way to download a streaming wowza video.

Jimmy

The other thing that needs to be taken in to account when choosing between streaming or downloadable content is that these days digital media is the new 'product' when it comes to porn.

Instead of buying DVDs, magazines, etc, people want to be able to download their online content and prize it as they used to physical product we were talking with someone we are going to be teaming up with later this year to roll some new exclusive content sites out and when we discussed the model of streaming or download for content, all of us agreed that surfers want to treat their digital content like they used to treat hard goods such as DVDs and mags, they dont actually want to 'hold' a product, but they want to 'own' a product and streaming makes this difficult but, none the less, streaming content definitely has a place in the market right now.

Regards,

Lee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nicedreams

I'd like to know more about this also. I have not see a way to download a streaming wowza video.

Jimmy

---

I know I asked for a private message from badpuppyben but maybe a public posting would be better. I'd like to take any information I can get to the main guy over at Wowza. I've had a few private email conversations with Charlie and he seems like a great guy. I'm sure any volubility (if one actually exists) would be closed in a second.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jake

I know I asked for a private message from badpuppyben but maybe a public posting would be better. I'd like to take any information I can get to the main guy over at Wowza. I've had a few private email conversations with Charlie and he seems like a great guy. I'm sure any volubility (if one actually exists) would be closed in a second.

---

damn that spell check! Had to look that one up just to know what it meant...[Middle English, moving easily, from Old French, from Latin volbilis, revolving, fluent, from volvere, to roll; see wel-2 in Indo-European roots.]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jake

damn that spell check! Had to look that one up just to know what it meant...[Middle English, moving easily, from Old French, from Latin volbilis, revolving, fluent, from volvere, to roll; see wel-2 in Indo-European roots.]

---

remind me to never play Scrabble with that guy

I thought I'd bring this string back to life in order to mention that I just bought one of those Western Digital media players (WD TV) at Best Buy for $100 and I must say I am impressed. I plugged it into an old external hard drive I had with a bunch of downloaded videos, connected it to my HDTV via an HDMI cable and wow... those videos never looked so good! I highly recommend this purchase if you have a lot of videos stored on hard drives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msm

I'll speak as an enduser also and say that if you're using Flash streaming that does not allow the user to jump around any part of the video instantly (assuming they have broadband) you are probably going to lose that member very soon. And Flash videos that do not give the option of full screen are also something I hate.

Sometimes I think webmasters need to remember why they got into the biz, which I assume is because they liked to j/o to naked men videos. Put yourself in the customers place and create a site that you would pay for and use.

But my real reason for entering this discussion is to ask if anyone has ever considered a two tier membership option, say $14.95 for Flash streaming non-downloadable videos and $24.95 for WMV or MOV videos you can save. It's sort of the difference between "leasing" the content and "buying" it. Consumers are accustomed to the idea of "leasing" in other areas (cars, homes, etc.) so why not porn?

---

Just a note on jumping around in a flash video ...this can be done as long as the person encoding into flash sets the keyframe at say every ten frames or actually 30 frames this will allow the viewer to scrub to most any part of the video.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msm

I'll speak as an enduser also and say that if you're using Flash streaming that does not allow the user to jump around any part of the video instantly (assuming they have broadband) you are probably going to lose that member very soon. And Flash videos that do not give the option of full screen are also something I hate.

Sometimes I think webmasters need to remember why they got into the biz, which I assume is because they liked to j/o to naked men videos. Put yourself in the customers place and create a site that you would pay for and use.

But my real reason for entering this discussion is to ask if anyone has ever considered a two tier membership option, say $14.95 for Flash streaming non-downloadable videos and $24.95 for WMV or MOV videos you can save. It's sort of the difference between "leasing" the content and "buying" it. Consumers are accustomed to the idea of "leasing" in other areas (cars, homes, etc.) so why not porn?

---

That is a great idea!

Except I would make the "download" price much higher -- prohibitively higher. That way, you are giving them the option, but who would pay for it? The only people who would pay for it are the one's who are going to download the entire site anyway. Might as well pad your pocket if they are going to be doing that.

Flash Streaming with Pay Per Minute billing is the way to go.



example gay flash pay per minute



:eek:

LOL! This is why I'm not disappointed about not having our titles on XOD.