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  1. #1
    On the other hand.... You have different fingers
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarebackJack View Post
    I think “taking a whack at the bareback studios” automatically reduces your credibility among any autonomous adult, unless you’re aiming your PSA at those who have spent their lives under a rock.
    I specifically said I was not seeking to discuss the *philosophy* for or against barebacking. There have been about 10,000 threads on that topic here at GWW and it's been discussed ad nasueum. However, since you're making a number of statements that I believe are factually incorrect, I will respond.

    From my experience in dealing with bareback studios over the last 9 years, I’ve found there are generally two types of studios: those who contract mostly/exclusively HIV Positive performers (who are often blacklisted by mainstream production companies), and those who make an effort to contract HIV-negative performers. The former are to my knowledge upfront with their performers about the presence of POZ performers in their productions – even going to the extent of putting language to that effect in their contracts, and the latter perform tests prior to filming to ensure as safe an environment as possible for their talent.
    Even if true, this means the former don't care about the safety of their models, given the voluminous information (pretty much not controversial anymore - see the previous 10,000 threads I referenced) about reinfection and the deleterious effects of it, and the latter, almost without exception, do not adequately and honestly disclose the risks (again, see the previous 10,000 threads on the subject.)

    Now... that's not to say that some bareback studios do not take reasonable precautions, and/or work with older models who are capable of fully comprehending the risks and are making an informed decision. I have less problem with that.

    Personally I don't know of any bareback studios that are as reckless as your Jesse makes them out to be with that one line.
    Then you don't know the twink marketplace. I know of one studio that *claims* to test everyone but according to multiple sources does not consistently do so, and many others that rely on models providing their own (non-AIM) results which can easily be faked, studios that regularly either blatantly lie or grossly misrepresent the risks to their models about the safety issues.

    Yes, I heard Jesse’s remark about testing even moments before having sex, and I don’t disagree with him. But two things have to be taken into consideration. First is the basic fact that most people in our modern information-based society understand that there is always a risk present when engaging in unsafe practices (it could be needle sharing… and I notice that Jesse fails to mention anything on that subject). That doesn't stop them from doing unsafe things. The other is that all performers in the adult industry are indeed adults and are capable of making their own decisions about how they will conduct their personal and professional lives. As adults we are all entitled to make such choices, and as such, we are obligated to deal with the consequences of our actions. Nobody gets away from that basic law.
    Discussed ad nauseum in other threads. I specifically said that I realized there were differing viewpoints and didn't want to start another longwinded discussion that would rehash the same stuff.

    Buying only safer-sex videos won’t change that.
    On that we disagree. If people stopped buying them, studios would stop producing them, and models would not be put in the position of putting their health at risk for an extra $500 or $1000.


    What I find most troubling about the cheap shot at bareback videos is this: In essence, Jesse is saying “Don’t buy the kind of content you think you want to see; buy the content that we deem politically correct.” Perhaps for the sake of full transparency you should have him say that. It would certainly be more honest.
    Jesse is a porn performer. He is also a social worker working daily with young people with HIV. He honestly believes, and AJ and I happen to agree, that each person can make a contribution to effecting change through their own actions. He is concerned about his safety and the safety of his fellow models.

    If enough people say "No, it's not worth some model's health for me to see this scene without a condom when it really doesn't make any difference to the quality of the scene" then bareback will stop outselling safe content, and there will no longer be an incentive (in an industry that runs nearly 100% on monetary incentive) to produce it. Therefore, less models exposed to that risk, and potentially, less kids in isolated areas getting the idea that barebacking is the "standard" thing for gay sex. There are many, many, many examples of small movements starting with just a few people that took hold and changed an entire nation, industry, or practice.

    We are far from isolated in our view on barebacking in the adult industry. We try to walk a middle line of not openly condemning companies that produce bareback, but at the same time, educating those in and outside the industry with facts. It is a challenge for us, because of the things I've said above about there being some risks even within "safer" sex.

    Politically correct/incorrect bullshit aside, I’d say the production values are mediocre at best. Jesse seems to be reading off of cue cards that aren’t being turned fast enough. The setting is uninspiring. I’ll agree with Lazer in that a more intimate setting would not only keep the thing from looking cold and unimaginative, but a warmer backdrop would also make it look as though it wasn’t filmed by a teenager with his dad’s videocam. You might consider having Jesse look at the camera when the angles change so he doesn’t appear to be talking to thin air (which maybe he is doing after all…)

    . Also consider more variations in the background lighting so the focus is on him, not that cheesy looking office. Again, setting it in an empty porn studio set would make it more attention-grabbing. And yes, for god’s sake get rid of the cheap plugs in the background. A plain title of “This message has been sponsored by…” at the end is much more professional. The damn thing doesn’t have to look like an MTV video, but as it stands the whole "PSA" ad is very amateurish. With a little more forethought and attention to detail you could do much better, frankly.
    I do appreciate the input on production values. This was a quick first attempt, done almost on a whim when Jesse was in town, as a starting point. Some of the angles and such are creative choices by our editor who is a filmmaker. I'm not sure if they work yet... this is indeed a work in process.


  2. #2
    Dzinerbear
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    Instead of pushing the safe sex aspect so much and not buying bareback porn, why don't you get Jesse to suggest people talk to their partners before they get naked. Safe sex is not our number one weapon against HIV, communication is.

    They've been running a campaign in Toronto that essentially talks about the misconceptions people have: "If he's willing to fuck me without a condom, he must be negative."

    Seems to me that most people aren't talking about what is acceptable for them, what is safe for them, and what's going to happen if they get high (or higher). They just jump in the sack and start doing it. The worst time to try and negotiate safe sex is when you've got a hard dick pushing up against your butt hole. That is the top's way of non-verbally asking you, "Is this okay?" If you spread your legs, he has his answer. But had you talked about it before you got naked, he probably wouldn't have even gone there.

    Cheers
    Michael


  3. #3
    On the other hand.... You have different fingers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzinerbear View Post
    Instead of pushing the safe sex aspect so much and not buying bareback porn, why don't you get Jesse to suggest people talk to their partners before they get naked. Safe sex is not our number one weapon against HIV, communication is.
    Wow, what a great quote. Again, complete agreement with you.

    I'd forgotten you are in Toronto. Jesse is in Toronto, perhaps I should get the two of you together to talk, he's quite passionate about facilitating change, and you have a lot of insight on this issue. He's getting ready to go to India for a monthlong social welfare practicum, but perhaps when he gets back...


  4. #4
    Dzinerbear
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    Sure, I'd love to talk to him.

    Cheers
    Michael


  5. #5
    Xstr8guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzinerbear View Post
    Sure, I'd love to talk to him.

    Cheers
    Michael
    Be sure to wear a condom.


  6. #6
    Dzinerbear
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xstr8guy View Post
    Be sure to wear a condom.
    Please I'm nearly old enough to be his grandfather, I think a condom would be the least of my worries.

    Michael


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzinerbear View Post
    Please I'm nearly old enough to be his grandfather, I think a condom would be the least of my worries.
    Looks like you're venturing into the realm of being a bottom sugar daddy :develish:
    Naked Straight Men on Squirtit & StraightBro

    ~ In Production ~

    Blindfoldmen.com
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  8. #8
    On the other hand.... You have different fingers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzinerbear View Post
    Please I'm nearly old enough to be his grandfather, I think a condom would be the least of my worries.

    Michael
    Yikes. If you're old enough to be his grandfather, I think I'm a little older than you, so you're scaring me


  9. #9
    ...since my first hard-on. A_DeAngelo's Avatar
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    now that the kettle of fish has been opened...

    telling people not to buy bareback videos won't work - (and I certainly do not appreciate that comment) - as I said in my earlier post, this is suppose to be a public service announcement NOT an AD for your safe sex products

    here are some points from the numerous focus groups and public hearings we have attented and sponsored re: HIV AND AIDS (for chirst's sake get that right please)

    get tested (knowledge = power) - heard that before?

    teach safe sex

    know your status

    stay negative

    do not infect others (its illegal - you can go to jail)

    do not abuse alcohol

    do not abuse drugs

    stick to these topics and your message will best serve your intent

    and please leave us off the list of bareback production companies you would like to ban -


  10. #10
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    Arrgh.

    Tony, as I've said many times before, I respect you on many levels. I don't share your viewpoint, but I defend your right to hold it. From what I've heard, I think that you guys probably are among the best of the bareback companies in many ways.

    PSAs can serve many purposes. Anti-smoking ones encourage people not to smoke; safe sex ones can encourage safe sex in every way, including encouraging people to buy safer sex porn instead of unsafe sex porn. It's simply our expression of our viewpoint, which as I said at the beginning, I realize is in conflict with the viewpoint of others in the GWW community whom I respect.

    As far as the effectiveness of the PSA, if it has no effect, then there should be no concern among the companies that produce bareback content. We don't have any illusion that one little PSA is going to suddenly change the habits of millions of porn buyers... but perhaps it will make a few people think... about their own safety, about the risks of various unsafe behaviors, about what it means when they are watching porn that's produced in a way that puts someone else (the models) at risk.

    We have quite a few customers that ask if we sell bareback the first time they call us, and we usually take the time to explain why we don't produce it. Often, they tell us they had never thought about the risks facing the people performing in the videos. Of course, it doesn't mean they will stop buying bareback content, but it is an opportunity to educate.

    It's not my place to ban anything. Thus far, we have chosen not to sell or promote any bareback titles on our online DVD store (and I know we lose a ton of sales because of it), but that's our choice... there are stores that only promote bareback and not condom product, and that's OK too.

    While I'd be delighted to see a world where there's no demand for porn featuring unsafe sex and therefore no one produced it (as well as a world where everyone treated each other as they'd want to be treated), I would, at the same time, stand up for your right to produce it if someone tried to ban it on censorship or obscenity grounds, because as soon as we allow any sort of restriction on speech, it's a dangerous precedent.

    And as for the other messages, absolutely yes... they are all very important, and we intend to produce a series of PSAs on a variety of topics, many of which are very personal to some of our models who have volunteered to participate in the production.

    The PSA I posted is just that - a PSA. Not supposed to have links to our sites on it, as I've already said 3 times above. There is another version of this that is, in fact, promoting one of Jesse's titles, but that one is for different uses and purposes and is designed to promote our safer sex product. The PSA is simply designed to make people think... and I've gotten a ton of excellent suggestions that will, I think, vastly improve the next one's ability to accomplish that goal.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzinerbear View Post
    Instead of pushing the safe sex aspect so much and not buying bareback porn, why don't you get Jesse to suggest people talk to their partners before they get naked.
    Considering the number of HIV+ men who hold their status as "private information," asking is a no brainer.

    However while talking about it may reveal that your partner is positive, you don't want to imply that it's okay to bareback if you both think you are negative.

    An estimated 20-25% of all HIV+ men don't even know they are positive. So go and just "talk about it" with one of these men and see where that gets you.
    I post here to whore this sig.


  12. #12
    ...since my first hard-on. A_DeAngelo's Avatar
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    oh, and yes of course...

    I forgot to mention that there is actually grant money available to produce these messages if your are SERIOUS about your intentions...

    drug companies and condom manufacturers will provide ample funding for this type of message

    you can ask me privately about resources...


  13. #13
    CamCruise
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    Well here I am. I just have to say this.
    Your PSA is an AD and nothing else.
    He lets the whole world know that he is your latest exclusive and that he works for you.

    As a man that has HIV for half of my life, I have never seen a more uneducated spokesman to get your point across. Jesse may have good intentions but he just sounds like he started working in hiv/aids field last week.

    Also what you have in this "PSA" is a kid saying to other guys his age not to buy something that is "bad to see"
    We have seen time and time again that if you tell people that you should not buy this or that because it is wrong to do that. people come looking to see what they are missing!! I cant understand why you would do that unless you own a bareback line too.
    And what about the BI men out there. Most all straight and Bi videos are really "BAREBACK" films too. Should they not buy those as well??
    You may want to say instead of "dont buy this" is "buying condom videos will help promote a safer sex lifestyle.

    That said I am all for PSA's. We have one at the start of all of our videos.
    but you should make it a real PSA about the health and well being of your audience. because in the real world there is just as much chance of people not using protection while seeing any video. Yours or mine.
    I hope this is helpful.


  14. #14
    On the other hand.... You have different fingers
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamCruise View Post
    Well here I am. I just have to say this.
    Your PSA is an AD and nothing else.
    He lets the whole world know that he is your latest exclusive and that he works for you.
    Sorry you feel that way. Jesse has been our exclusive for 2-1/2 years. He hasn't shot any new content in 2 years. He visited AJ and I in December as a friend, not to shoot new content (sorry, Brian!) and we got the idea of shooting the PSA while we were tossing around ideas about how we could make a difference. That's why it's rather thrown together... little production time or planning, just a first cut at an idea.

    As a man that has HIV for half of my life, I have never seen a more uneducated spokesman to get your point across. Jesse may have good intentions but he just sounds like he started working in hiv/aids field last week.
    Thanks for your kind words. As I said above, he was working off of a script that AJ and I wrote, so we are the ignorant ones, and I completely acknowledge that the piece was not as well researched as it should have been. We weren't aiming for a professionally produced piece with this first one, but it should have been factually accurate and more considerate of positive people in its terminology.

    Also what you have in this "PSA" is a kid saying to other guys his age not to buy something that is "bad to see"
    We have seen time and time again that if you tell people that you should not buy this or that because it is wrong to do that. people come looking to see what they are missing!! I cant understand why you would do that unless you own a bareback line too.
    He said that choosing safe content helps to keep models safe, and promotes healthier sexual practices. He didn't say it was "bad." Jesse is generally very careful about using neutral and positive language as a result of his counseling training.

    [/QUOTE]
    You may want to say instead of "dont buy this" is "buying condom videos will help promote a safer sex lifestyle.
    [/QUOTE]

    I think that's what he did say.

    That said I am all for PSA's. We have one at the start of all of our videos.
    but you should make it a real PSA about the health and well being of your audience. because in the real world there is just as much chance of people not using protection while seeing any video. Yours or mine.
    I hope this is helpful.
    Agreed, and I'm getting a lot of ideas that Pat (our filmmaker/editor) and AJ and I and Jesse will all make use of.


  15. #15
    Dzinerbear
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 26z View Post
    An estimated 20-25% of all HIV+ men don't even know they are positive. So go and just "talk about it" with one of these men and see where that gets you.
    Talking about it will get you the information that this guy hasn't been tested. That's important information to have. While you might be inclined to bareback with a known-negative guy in a moment of heated passion, knowing that the guy has never been tested (or hasn't been tested recently) is good information to have. And even if you're never going to bareback, if a condom breaks, it's still very good information to have ... there is such a thing as the morning after cocktail.

    Any information is better than none.

    Michael


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