Failing Industry?

[maxpower]

If there's a single affiliate out there whose entire business and livelihood depended on being able to promote CorbinFisher.com - while at the same time referring so little traffic that they'd be among those whose accounts were let go - then they don't deserve to be in business.

We didn't terminate them, they terminated themselves.

You find me a webmaster who has been put out of business by our decision to privatize our affiliate program and I'll find you a webmaster who shouldn't have been in business in the first place.

Same goes for webmasters dependent upon a single link list or directory to survive.

Do you post on every webmaster board online? What of the hardworking webmasters running those other boards who aren't getting enough activity and traffic on their boards? Shouldn't you, as a webmaster, support their boards and go post there as much as here? Do you advertise on every webmaster resource online? Do you use every single billing processor out there? No. You choose which ones to interact and engage with depending on how you feel it will benefit you.

Yes but this as I see it is very different, where you I guess are drowning in affiliates, like the LL’s and the submitters, but some place along the line you guys begin to look at these people as nuisance instead of the backbone of your company.

I work very hard to offer affiliates every thing I possibly can, while you seem to not care much at all. What you guys give out 35% to affiliates as a starter right? Then have a problem if a few week-end webmasters do not send enough traffic. I just think your destine for affiliates is getting out of control, while at the same time I find myself working to the ew hours of the night, to pretty much the opposite. Its just really hard for me to see it as ok to treat members of our community like that, and I truly hope I will never forget who helped me build my sites.

[wnc]

LOOK... PART TWO THEAD.

I think LEE has been rather British, transposed to USA and likes you around. (no comment about Lee opinionated nature).

Once ya attacked me MAX for making a comment about you, saying I was worthless with only five posts.

WOW what 35 now? I am too busy to post and, many times, having nothing to contribute.

But it time for you to leave the forum.

All you do is moan and bitch and complain... no time you recently wrote... you have enough time to post 3000+ worthless comments constantly?

HMMMMM. Amazed I am wasting my time writing this.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

Yes but this as I see it is very different, where you I guess are drowning in afflatus, like the LL’s and the submitters, but some place along the line you guys begin to look at these people as nuisance instead of the backbone of your company.

I work very hard to offer affiliates every thing I could possibly do for them, while you seem to not care much at all. What you guys give out 35% to afflatus as a starter right? Then have a problem if a few week-end webmasters do not send enough traffic. I just think your destine for affiliates is getting out of control, while at the same time I find myself working to the ew hours of the night, to pretty much to the opposite. Its just really hard for me to see it as ok to treat members of our community like that, and I truly hope I will never forget who help me build my sites.

If you're going to take it upon yourself to be so critical, at least doing some research would help. We don't, nor have we ever, started affiliates off at 35%. Our minimum has always been 50%, and many webmasters with whom we have a close relationship make above that.

Quite frankly, there ARE nuisances among affiliate webmasters. There are very valuable and helpful ones as well, but no shortage of nuisances and webmasters who drain a company's resources rather than benefit it.

The webmaster using spam to promote us is a nuisance.
The webmaster posting misguiding links and descriptions to try and trick people in to visiting our site is a nuisance.
The webmaster who batters their traffic with popups and viruses while directing them to our site is a nuisance.
The webmaster who demands unlimited access to free content while sending almost no traffic in return - and the many, many such webmasters who collectively risk diluting the value of the content we spend a great deal of money and effort in creating - is a nuisance.
As we see a great deal of success in adjusting our entire site to show almost no hardcore material outside of the members area and abandon the use of xxx update previews, an unlimited number of webmasters freely distributing hardcore samples of our material through an unlimited number of channels is a nuisance.

Again, you fail to see how things can be a business decision and not a personal decision. None of us are entitled to any favors from anyone else, and at the root of even many of the closest friendships formed among people in this industry are shared business interests. That's how each of us know that any of the rest of us even exist. Were it not for business, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Business.

When we make decisions that are in our best interests - and also happen to greatly benefit the affiliate webmasters we are retaining, mind you - it's a decision we're entitled to make as a business and a decision we're obligated to make in the interests of our employees and their families. If the occasional weekend webmaster gets burned in that, such is the nature of the game. That's the real world. And even many of those weekend webmasters seem to understand that concept a great deal better than you.

When an affiliate stops promoting us because we don't convert for them, I don't take it personally no matter how much effort and energy I've spent on them or free content I've provided them. I see it as a decision they have every right to make in the best interests of their business. Are you saying I should take it personally and feel like they're out to get me?

[IdolKnights]

WOW what 35 now?

Er... Posts: 43

[wnc]

Er... Posts: 43

lafff... thanks

and MAX.. I am still a Corbin Fisher affiliate, yet I send them only a handful a day. I guess they see potential, unlike you.

[maxpower]

If you're going to take it upon yourself to be so critical, at least doing some research would help. We don't, nor have we ever, started affiliates off at 35%. Our minimum has always been 50%, and many webmasters with whom we have a close relationship make above that.

Quite frankly, there ARE nuisances among affiliate webmasters. There are very valuable and helpful ones as well, but no shortage of nuisances and webmasters who drain a company's resources rather than benefit it.

The webmaster using spam to promote us is a nuisance.
The webmaster posting misguiding links and descriptions to try and trick people in to visiting our site is a nuisance.
The webmaster who batters their traffic with popups and viruses while directing them to our site is a nuisance.
The webmaster who demands unlimited access to free content while sending almost no traffic in return - and the many, many such webmasters who collectively risk diluting the value of the content we spend a great deal of money and effort in creating - is a nuisance.
As we see a great deal of success in adjusting our entire site to show almost no hardcore material outside of the members area and abandon the use of xxx update previews, an unlimited number of webmasters freely distributing hardcore samples of our material through an unlimited number of channels is a nuisance.

Again, you fail to see how things can be a business decision and not a personal decision. None of us are entitled to any favors from anyone else, and at the root of even many of the closest friendships formed among people in this industry are shared business interests. That's how each of us know that any of the rest of us even exist. Were it not for business, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Business.

When we make decisions that are in our best interests - and also happen to greatly benefit the affiliate webmasters we are retaining, mind you - it's a decision we're entitled to make as a business and a decision we're obligated to make in the interests of our employees and their families. If the occasional weekend webmaster gets burned in that, such is the nature of the game. That's the real world. And even many of those weekend webmasters seem to understand that concept a great deal better than you.

When an affiliate stops promoting us because we don't convert for them, I don't take it personally no matter how much effort and energy I've spent on them or free content I've provided them. I see it as a decision they have every right to make in the best interests of their business. Are you saying I should take it personally and feel like they're out to get me?

Well was not sure about what you give affiliates, why I asked but it must have been another site that looked like yours that does offer 35%. Their is like 3 of these Frat sites now days that are very similar. Well to someone that promotes twink content anyway.

I really do get how affiliates and submitters can be a big pain in the ass, and how you guys could begin to look at them the ways you do. But I think this begins to effect your thinking, and even more importantly this is effecting how LL’s look at submitters.

As far as people changing members sites for better numbers after they have ran you though their traffic. You should hold yourself to a higher standard than some affiliates who’s job it to rotate affiliate programs. That’s like a apples and oranges thing, members sites should be more stable than that. I am sure many of these week-end webmasters you removed to make your reports look cleaner, where in fact members of your site. I don’t know man, it would take allot for me to remove a affiliates account, and not being the worlds largest suppler of traffic would not be up on my list.

I have always found many sites, will small amount of traffic do convert every well, would also think even though some of the week-end guys might not send 5000 clicks a day, yet I would think their conversion numbers would look good even if its on a small scale, if the sites very convertible that is.

[Lee]

yet I would think their conversion numbers would look good even if its on a small scale, if the sites very convertible that is.

Conversions mean squat.

I could be doing 1:100 on one site and you could be doing 1:100 on the same site.

The difference is, im sending that site 10,000 hits whilst you are only sending 100.

You cant bank a conversion.

Regards,

Lee

[maxpower]

Conversions mean squat.

I could be doing 1:100 on one site and you could be doing 1:100 on the same site.

The difference is, im sending that site 10,000 hits whilst you are only sending 100.

You cant bank a conversion.

Regards,

Lee

Ya sure man, I know Traffic is king trust me this is why I am so abscessed with these conversion numbers. As I see it the only way I will get good traffic is by having a really good conversion ratio, as in Affiliates, and other traffic sites promoting you because your numbers look good.

I know theses large guys especially will not stick around too long, but also this is why I do care about the small guys so much. I see the smaller webmasters as one of the most stable parts of a program.

But hey I admit some of these things are just theories as of yet

[wnc]

LEE: WHY to you allow MAX here?

YOUR POST COUNTS VIA INCOME... OH OKAY

PLEASE LEE...

MANY gave advice over the months and yet.. MAX moved ahead and he wrote he now has two membership active sites. I think it is BS.

[Xstr8guy]

LEE: WHY to you allow MAX here?

YOUR POST COUNTS VIA INCOME... OH OKAY

PLEASE LEE...

MANY gave advice over the months and yet.. MAX moved ahead and he wrote he now has two membership active sites. I think it is BS.

You have the option to ignore any member's posts. It was an option I used for a few weeks when I was suffering from Max overdose.

You are a little late to the game here but many of us are now quite used to Max. I used to be his biggest enemy but now I don't mind his rants at all. I take most of his posts with a grain of salt. And in fact, I actually find a valid point of view that is MUCH different than mine... and lots of comic relief.

[wnc]

No... I will not remove MAX... for I remain amazed that this ranting and raving remains a part of this forum.

IF ENTERTAINMENT... CLOSE THE CURTAIN.

[maxpower]

You have the option to ignore any member's posts. It was an option I used for a few weeks when I was suffering from Max overdose.

You are a little late to the game here but many of us are now quite used to Max. I used to be his biggest enemy but now I don't mind his rants at all. I take most of his posts with a grain of salt. And in fact, I actually find a valid point of view that is MUCH different than mine... and lots of comic relief.

THax man, I remember all that Ignore Max stuff, dont worry I never really took it that hard :p Its sometimes good to burn up some stress on the bourd

[wnc]

THax man, I remember all that Ignore Max stuff, dont worry I never really took it that hard :p Its sometimes good to burn up some stress on the bourd

I think it is rude to burn off your stress making negative comments about the industry as you see it.

If you have a new vision, create a business plan and make it real.

[Dzinerbear]

Max,

What you don't seem to understand is that every year or two the entire Industry needs to re-create itself and move in new direction. Why?

Time and again, someone comes up with The Idea, it becomes successful; 5,000 webmasters jump on The Idea, copy it, find ways to pump out more product with less work and originality; suddenly everywhere a surfer goes they see The Idea. There is so much Idea out there the surfers get bored and start looking for something else. They start to find The New Idea, and the cycle begins again. As surfers move over to The New Idea, webmasters promoting The Idea begin to dwindle. Some launch The New Idea sites, some leave the business altogether claiming there's no money to be made and the Industry is full of scammers, others claim The New Idea is bullshit and will never work. A few webmaster who had really good The Idea sites still keep moving ahead, developing and changing their products.

This cycle repeats itself over and over again every 18-24 months. It started with AVS, megasites, link lists, paysites, reality sites, TGPs, free sites, blogs. As one business model fades out, it doesn't mean the business is failing or in jeopardy, it just means that it's changing. Just as customers get tired of Starbucks coffee or Blackberries, they also get tired of the same old porn. Someone is always going to be there to give them something new.

Cheers,
Michael

[maxpower]

Max,

What you don't seem to understand is that every year or two the entire Industry needs to re-create itself and move in new direction. Why?

Time and again, someone comes up with The Idea, it becomes successful; 5,000 webmasters jump on The Idea, copy it, find ways to pump out more product with less work and originality; suddenly everywhere a surfer goes they see The Idea. There is so much Idea out there the surfers get bored and start looking for something else. They start to find The New Idea, and the cycle begins again. As surfers move over to The New Idea, webmasters promoting The Idea begin to dwindle. Some launch The New Idea sites, some leave the business altogether claiming there's no money to be made and the Industry is full of scammers, others claim The New Idea is bullshit and will never work. A few webmaster who had really good The Idea sites still keep moving ahead, developing and changing their products.

This cycle repeats itself over and over again every 18-24 months. It started with AVS, megasites, link lists, paysites, reality sites, TGPs, free sites, blogs. As one business model fades out, it doesn't mean the business is failing or in jeopardy, it just means that it's changing. Just as customers get tired of Starbucks coffee or Blackberries, they also get tired of the same old porn. Someone is always going to be there to give them something new.

Cheers,
Michael

Was not saying any LL’s going bankrupt, but I do not see what’s going on as a cycle more a slow down hill ride. People in general are less interested in online content very year, and all we have to look forward is throwing more and more free content at viewers, and them getting less and less willing to pay for anything. I think creating these internet towns or what ever they call them when they give every free net access will just magnify the problem.

Flat out we need a new delivery for content, I do like the Microsoft Interactive TV, Bill was talking about it on the daily show.